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HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-20-2016 Minutes - Workshopan 1r SEBASTLAN HOME OF PELICAN ISLAND SEBASTIAN CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MINUTES WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 20, 2016 - 5:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 1225 MAIN STREET, SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA 1. Mayor Gillmor called the Council Workshop to order at 5:00 p.m. 2. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. 3. ROLL CALL Citv Council Present: Mayor Richard Gillmor Council Member Andrea Coy Council Member Bob McPartlan Citv Council Absent: Vice Mayor Adams (excused) Council Member Jim Hill (excused) Staff Present: City Manager Joe Griffin City Attorney Bob Ginsburg City Clerk Sally Maio Others Present: Judy McNamara, President Sebastian River Art Club Darlene Kratovel, Secretary, Sebastian River Art Club Amanda Lucas, Sebastian River Art Club Tina Cafro, Sebastian River Embroidery Guild Nathalie Arribas, Sebastian Stepping Stone Quilters Guild Devon Williams, Sebastian Stepping Stone Quilters Guild and Quilts of Honor Frederick Sager, Indian River Woodcarvers The above listed participants were at a table with Council members and staff for the discussion. In addition there were approximately 100+ in the audience, some members of the above referenced clubs and guilds along with members of the Sebastian Senior Center. 4. WORKSHOP ITEM (in accordance with R-15-10, at workshops, matters maybe discussed and placed on an appropriate City Council meeting agenda for formal action. Substantive decisions shall not be made at workshops. Public Input Is limited to the item on the agenda) A. Discuss Facilitv Use Aareement for Annex Buildina for Sebastian Art Club, Sebastian Steooina Stones Quilt Guild, and Sebastian River Embroidery Guild (2010 Meetinq ExceDts. Senior Center Aareement) Mayor Gillmor read the title and cited history, stating the quilting group started using the old chambers before the Art Club did, after the hurricanes of 2004, and in 2010 the Sebastian River Art Club, after discussion by the former City Manager about tearing down the old buildings and making it a parking lot, made an agreement with the City for the use of the Art Center. He said there are many other organizations that use that space other than the Art Club, quilters and embroidery club and listed them as Power Squadron, Historical Society for meetings, and Boy Scouts. City Council Workshop January 20, 2016 Page Two Ms. Coy said her goal is not to kick anyone out of the building but to legitimize the use for everyone, that this workshop was not her idea, that she had asked to sit down with the organizations here but the Mayor wanted to be included in the conversation and because of that we cannot have a conversation without being public. She said some of what she will ask might be better suited to a meeting in the Manager's office but since we have come to this point she will ask her questions. Ms. Coy suggested, to understand what transpired, that people watch the May 12, 2010 and September 8, 2010 City Council meetings, noting on September 8v' the Council made their decision on the agreement with the Art Club. She disagreed that the buildings were going to be knocked down, but perhaps renovated and this was expressed to the Art Club, and the reason we dealt with the Art Club was they were asking for specific sole use of the back half of the building, which we will call the gallery. Mayor Gillmor said for the record the better word is "Art Center'. Ms. Coy said it was the western part of the building, the old Public Works office and not the Chambers, that was discussed at the meeting. She said at the September meeting, Mr. Wolff asked if they were a non-profit and Toni Hill answered that they were a 501c4 and assured Council there was a legitimate 501c3 organization at the time. She said Mr. Gillmor was Mayor and President of the Art Club at that time but he stepped down from the vote, and the rest of Council was very excited to give the Art Club that portion of the building. She said she asked the current Art Club president if she could provide evidence that 501c4 paperwork, and there isn't any, and she can find no record of the Art Club being incorporated. Ms. Coy was handed a copy of the document, but noted it was dated November 23, 2010 for the initial incorporation. Mayor Gillmor said he believed they are a 501c7, and Ms. Coy responded they were a 501 c3 and asked him to show her the c7 documents. Mayor Gillmor said they spent thousands going after 501c3, at a time when no one was getting 501c3 because of IRS firings due to pressure not to give out 501c3 to anybody who was conservative; spent money on attorneys and tax lawyers starting in May 2010, and found it was easier to go for 501c7, a hobby club and non-profit. Ms. Coy again said they are a 501 c3 and he said they were not. She noted Articles of Incorporation are dated 11/23/10. Ms. McNamara said she had a letter from the IRS stating they cannot recognize them as a 501c3, and as a result the IRS will treat them as a taxable entity. Ms. Coy said then you are not a non-profit. Mayor Gillmor said the State would not allow the 501 c3 so subsequently they refiled as a 501 c7 and that is what they are. Tina Cafro asked what difference it made if you are a 501c3 or a 501c7, and Ms. Coy responded taxes. Ms. Cafro said if you don't sell stuff there is no tax. Ms. Coy said this is about the Art Club and not the embroiderers or quilters. She said if Mayor Gillmor wants to cut this off and let her meet with the President of the Art Club it would be far better and do this first before we discuss a lease. Ms. Coy asked Ms. Cafro if she wanted a lease and she said sure. Mayor Gillmor said the whole crux of the matter is he has talked to members, though no longer an Art Club officer, and everyone is getting along with no problems scheduling, and adjust to one another. He asked if Ms. McNamara had found the agreement with the City. Ms. McNamara said it is just a copy and they did not receive a finalized copy. Mayor Gillmor said 2 City Council Workshop January 20, 2016 Page Three they had a signed agreement with the City, handed Ms. Coy a copy which was the signed Senior Center agreement. Mayor Gillmor said again they do have a signed agreement with the City, but Ms. McNamara said it was only a copy, not signed. Ms. Coy said she would much rather sit down with Club members, and cited a 2012 Articles of Corporation still showing 501c3. Ms. McNamara said again no one got copies of the signed agreement. Ms. Coy said we did not sign a lease agreement, once again suggesting people go back and watch the 2010 meetings. She said she wants a lease agreement with everyone at the table but first wanted to know there is a legitimate 501. Ms. Cafro asked why, and Ms. Coy said if they want exclusive use, noting the Art Club has exclusive use of a portion of the building and everyone else who exclusively uses our facilities has a lease agreement, and for five years the Art Club has had exclusive use. Mayor Gillmor said they are fine with a lease, noting that space was reconstituted by the Art Club and was a mess before they refurbished it, and they have given close to $1 OK to charity. Ms. Coy said that is wonderful but she wants their paperwork and what she is finding is that we don't even know what they are, and Mayor Gillmor said we are a 5010, and Ms. McNamara said the IRS accepts their payment under a 501 c7. Ms. Cafro asked if Ms. Coy as President of the Senior Center and member of Council, should recuse herself from this whole proceeding and doesn't she have a bias on everything that is going on. Ms. Coy said we are not talking about the Senior Center. Mayor Gillmor asked the audience not to clap. Ms. Coy said there is a Senior Center lease, and had asked two members of the Senior Center board to be here in case there are any questions, and there is not a conflict for her. She then asked the City Attorney if there is a conflict. The City Attorney responded not at a workshop, and State law addresses voting conflicts. Ms. Coy asked could she not vote on an Art Club lease and he responded she could not vote on a Senior Center lease. Ms. Coy said we are not here to discuss a Senior Center lease and asked can she vote on an Art Club lease and the City Attorney said correct. Ms. McNamara asked if the Senior Center is a 501 c3 and Ms. Coy said yes. Ms. Coy said what the Art Club does is wonderful, the donations they make are great, but thought the City had a right to look at some of the finances, how much money did they take in and where did it go, they teach art classes, how many members, and how do they charge for membership. Ms. McNamara said 160+ members and charge $25 per member. Ms. Coy said they charge to display artwork in the center and Ms. McNamara said $5 and no fee for display in the park, but ask for a donation is if an artist sells a piece. She said they pay for judges out of the treasury and noted the artists giving classes give the Art Club a percentage of their fee. Ms. Coy said we should know how they are collecting and paying out money, noting she can show them the Senior Center books. Mayor Gillmor and Ms. Coy again had a discussion over whether they were a 501 c3 or 501 c7. Mayor Gillmor said they spent over a year and a half to be a 501c3 and ultimately became a 501 c7. He said this is a witch hunt; they are a non-profit and would be glad for her to come City Council Workshop January 20, 2016 Page Four over and look at their finances. He said he wanted to be here as a member of the Art Club and was hearing bad things. Ms. Coy asked for a copy of the 501c7 papers, and Mayor Gillmor said they would make an appointment and show her the papers. Ms. Coy asked the City Attorney if he had an opinion and he said he did not. Mayor Gillmor said he would have the President and Treasurer sit down with Ms. Coy and show her everything. Ms. Coy said then we don't need this meeting, everyone agrees we need a lease. Ms. McNamara said she should have come to them, that Ms. Coy never approached her or introduced herself until today. Ms. Coy said they met in the Art Center, and she had sent an email to the City Manager last Thursday to get in touch with Ms. McNamara, the quilters and the embroidery club to set up a meeting, which is public record, but before he contacted them... Ms. Cafro said that was her fault because she went to Joe and because there were so many issues it was better to do it this way. Mr. Griffin said yes and no, that at the meeting we decided, with Frank Watanabe in attendance, that we would have a meeting with Ms. Coy, and he informed the Mayor about it and the Mayor asked to be a part of the meeting, so with two elected officials together, he had to ensure that everyone was protected under the Sunshine Law and make it a public meeting. Ms. Cafro said she heard they were going to get thrown out of the building, and Ms. Coy had come into the building, did not introduce herself, and said she was going to make changes. Ms. Coy said she went in and was refreshing her memory on what the stage looked like because the City Manager and other quilters had talked about getting rid of the stage. Ms. Cafro said when Ms. Coy comes in she does not seek out the President, but talks to the first one who comes near her and they don't represent that Guild. She said Ms. Coy stated all her compadres want this done, and asked who they are. Ms. Coy said the room can be renovated anytime Council wants it to, the rug is a disaster, and not a good representation of the City. Ms. Cafro said they were happy the City gave them a nice place, and Ms. Coy said she does not want to take it away but renovate it and give them a nice place like the Senior Center. She said the building is horrible, needs carpet replaced, new tables and chairs. Ms. McNamara said it is not horrible. Ms. Coy said what about other organizations, and exclusive use, what about woodcarvers, where do we draw the line. She asked don't they think if we give exclusive use there should be a lease. She said a lease protects for a period of time. Mayor Gillmor said the Senior Center lease goes to 2018. Ms. Coy said we should just present this to Council for a lease. When asked by Ms. Coy, Mr. McPartlan said he thought there needs to be a lease. Ms. Coy said it is not her intent to kick anyone out. Ms. Cafro asked then why did she say in that building that she was going to redo the building like the south one and then everyone who comes in can pay a dollar. She said Ms. Coy is treading on others. Ms. Coy said she wants to share that renovation and do it again. 13 City Council Workshop January 20, 2016 Page Four Ms. McNamara said Ms. Coy had not explained herself the way she is explaining herself now. Ms. Coy said no one had ever asked her and it was informal, and again said she did not want anyone out. She said she looked forward to sitting down with the Board and has aright to see finances. Ms. McNamara said they have them all. Ms. Coy said she wants a lease modeled on the Senior Center lease, but there is explaining to do, again citing the answer to the question are you a legitimate agency, and Ms. Hill's response that they are a 501 c4. Mayor Gillmor said 501 c4 is a government agency so that is wrong. Ms. Coy said there is muddy water and she wants to clear it. She said she had no problem with the quilters and embroidery club, and Mayor Gillmor said they are going to want a lease after this. Ms. Coy said that would be up to Council and only if they are going to have exclusive use, citing do the Boy Scouts need a lease, maybe not. Ms. Williams said the quilters feel they are not in the same category because of all the community service they do, and would request a longer term lease. Mayor Gillmor said it would probably be a sublease or something like that. Ms. Williams said they would prefer a nominal payment. Mayor Gillmor asked how about a dollar a year. Ms. Coy said this is ideas and asked whether a sublease is necessary and would all users of that room need it. She said the Art Club was given one space and it kind of morphed and now the space they were given was the Art Club side of the building and is in the drawings of what was requested, but now it has now gone into other areas where the quilters are. Ms. McNamara said the Art Club asked and is on the schedule for certain times just like the others are. Ms. Coy said it has morphed if you look at the record. She said they asked for a specific space for places to paint. Mayor Gillmor said that is not true, and that they were in there before they requested the space for the Art Center and were painting there for at least a year before requesting it and had their meetings in there. He said they don't paint in the Art Center. Ms. Coy said they requested the space for classroom, office and gallery. You said they needed the space because there is not enough room to paint in the other room. He said it is true they use that one room for classes. He said it is false that it morphed into more. Ms. McNamara said they hold classes on some Tuesdays and Thursdays in the big room if they get permission through the City. Ms. Coy said every Tuesday and Thursday they have it reserved and again said it morphed. Ms. McNamara said they have grown from 75 to 150+ members of course it is going to get bigger, and were in that room before they had the Art Center, holding meetings and doing what they do. Mayor Gillmor said that area was a mess and they did not ask for a penny from the City, and did all that hard work themselves, painted walls, cleaned the carpet, and put up doors. He said they are good stewards and deserve a lease for the Art Club for that space. Ms. Coy said she had no problem if he can show her the paperwork for the organization. She said let's end this nightmare until we can sit down and talk about ideas and bring it back and do this again, either at a workshop or on the dais where Council can take a vote. She said we should do another workshop, that she wants them in the building legitimately, and make sure paperwork is right. She said she can be the bad guy if they want to make her one but did not want to be. She said she wanted to renovate the building at the least cost for a nice place to hold their meetings. She said there are other things that can go on there when it is not used if we have a decent floor. 5 City Council Workshop January 20, 2016 Page Six Frank Sager, representing a group of woodcarvers, said they have been trying to get into the building during inclement weather, and hoped they could get it provided to them. He said they do not sell on the market, do a lot of work for Hospice at no charge, create eagle canes for Veterans receiving the Purple Heart, and trophies for environmental studies by young people. He said they have no place to go when it gets cold, and hope the Art gets their lease and can share a little space with them. He said there is all kind of talent out there. It was decided that Ms. Coy would meet with some of the ladies from the organization in City Hall on Thursday at 9 am. Ms. Coy asked them to bring their paperwork. Dan Lovallo asked what prompted this. Ms. Coy said she had this discussion with the City Manager about an Art Club lease. Mr. Lovallo said they have been there since 2010 with an agreement with the City. Ms. Coy said there is a verbal handshake. He asked is it her intention to collect money because she is asking for financial information from a group to use facilities and is not being asked to pay for it, and what difference does it make whether they make money or not and isn't that between them and the IRS. Ms. Coy said she wanted to make sure taxes are okay. He asked is it because the City has some liability if they don't pay taxes and Ms. Coy answered she does, citing how some non -profits are required to collect taxes under some circumstances, specifically the Junior Women's Halloween House admission fee for which they pay taxes. Ms. Cafro said it is like going to Walmart and asking them to open their books and Ms. Coy said Walmart is not asking to use public property for free and they pay taxes. Ms. McNamara said they provided her the document showing they pay their 990s every year and isn't that sufficient. Ms. Coy said the 990 e -postcard just shows they made x number of dollars, and asked doesn't the public have a right to see their books. Ms. Coy said everyone in the City that has exclusive use of one of the City's buildings has a lease except the Art Club. Mr. Lovallo said people who are on a schedule and asking permission to use a City property don't require a lease. Ms. Coy agreed with him but wants to discuss that more. He then asked if you can carve on new carpeting. Ms. Coy said who said there is going to be carpet. Harry Smith said no one knows what these papers are and what we they are for, and why was it not explained what they are looking at. Ms. Coy said he was right. Mr. Smith said it was going to go right to Council like everything else does. Ms. Coy said we promised to come back for another workshop. Mr. Smith advised that when it does they explain it first. Brian Lynch said when Ms. Coy meets with the group he wants to be there as a concerned citizen. Ms. Coy said there will be no other Council here so we are not broadcasting and not recording. AV staff said there would be an audio recording and Ms. Coy said no. (City Clerk note: Since the Thursday meeting was between one member of Council and citizen groups, it was not a Sunshine meeting and no recording was required or prepared) Grant Goodfellow, Vice President of the Senior Activity Center, advised the folks that the Art Club should want a lease, said the 501c application is a request to the federal government to City Council Workshop January 20, 2016 Page Seven exempt you from income taxes, to be exempt from State sales tax once approved by the federal government, for which you apply with a Form R22 to the State of Florida to be exempt from sales tax in Florida and they provide you a form to provide when you purchase things for your organization, but not for personal use. He cited how they arrived at the lease agreement they have, noting the City asked for their paperwork when preparing the lease, cited provisions of their user agreement and how it spells out their responsibilities to the City and the City's responsibilities to the organization. Stephanie Lovallo, member of Art Club, said to anyone listening they have a wonderful place, the facility is not dirty but is a wonderful place, full of great art, they provide student art scholarships, give charitable donations, help people, and have wonderful artists. Ms. Coy agreed the Art Center where the pictures hang is a beautiful facility and she is talking about the other shared space she talks about renovating. She said after her meeting with the group it will come back for another workshop and then we will take it to Council. Carol Bennett, new member of Art Club, said it sounds like there is a special concern and was Ms. Coy thinking of putting them in a smaller space. Ms. Coy said that is what a lease will set out, the Art Center space is sacred, but the other side of the building desperately needs renovation. Carol ??, member of quilt and embroidery group, said their work is also art, and it is an art center for all of us, and said it would be great if they all had their leases. ??? asked what her intent was. Ms. Coy said to come up with the lease, and how we can maintain that building, who pays for that and how do we renovate that, and who gets to use it and noted that if we give a lease, Council can't tear it down. She said right now we can tear it down at Council's discretion. Mayor Gillmor says that goes for the Senior Center when their lease is up. She continued that it protects the lessee and the City. ?? asked if you are going to tear the building down where are you going to put another building. Ms. Coy said we have talked about renovating the building or a roof over the building to make more space. She said the bathrooms are being redone now, continued that a lease protects you, noting the Senior Center spent a lot of money on their center. She said there are money issues and lease issues, and are there other groups out there that want to use it. She said Weight Watchers had asked for space. 5. Mayor Gillmor said we will do this again and adjourned the Workshop at 6:12 p.m. d t he bru 0, 2016 Regular Meeting. (7 ch i o , Mayor ATTES 42, \ /jJl Sally A. Maio, ity Clerk 1 Y Sebastian City Council Workshop Sign-up Sheet —January 20, 2016 — 5 pm (Please print) Name \ 11k,/u ReM217a ro Rcz Organization �ebasfiar� JE�iue2 A-,e� �u� CP/�s) �m3n (q k,) Q www t,) c5 ODCA tci1Es '-->ff 3 /tai tJ -7-, ..o A2T C.ukb �a41I 0 affro S_6)ez a_ ui 4 C-XA; ICA F066RT A. GpVSdgmjZ6 G)TY AIV- J IC <:14del S7Aj /� lY �/�� �7.,Z- �ho�e diS�onnEctCr1 U