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SEBASTIAN
HOME OF PELICAN ISLAND
SEBASTIAN CITY COUNCIL
MINUTES
SPECIAL MEETING
FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONVENING
ATTORNEY -CLIENT SESSION
WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 2020 — 5:00 P.M.
UPON ADJOURNMENT— REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
1225 MAIN STREET, SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA
1. Mayor Dodd called the public meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
2. Pastor Grant Foster, Riverside Church gave the invocation.
3. Council Member Hill led the Pledge of Allegiance.
4. ROLL CALL
Mayor Ed Dodd
Vice Mayor Charles Mauti
Council Member Damien Gilliams
Council Member Jim Hill
Council Member Pamela Parris
Staff Present:
City Manager Paul Carlisle
City Attorney Manny Anon, Jr.
City Clerk Jeanette Williams
Chief Financial Officer/Administrative Services Director Ken Kilgore
Leisure Services Director Brian Benton
5. RECESS TO CONVENE ATTORNEY -CLIENT SESSION: In accordance with
F.S.286.011(8) a request was made by City Attorney Manny Anon, Jr. at the July 8,2020
regular City Council meeting to hold an Attorney -Client session to discuss the pending
litigation and negotiations as noticed below:
20.020 A. Pelican Island Audubon Societv. Graham Cox. and Donna Halleran v. City of
Sebastian.
The session will be held in the City Hall 2nd floor conference room.
ESTIMATED LENGTH OF SESSION: 1 hour
NAME, j"MOF eERSONN.ATTENDING: Mayor Ed Dodd, Vice Mayor Charles
Mauti, Gounciamber�amien Gilliams, Council Member Jim Hill, Council
Member Pamela Parris, City Attorney Manny Anon, Jr., Special Counsel
Daniel L. Abbott of Weiss Serota Helfman Cole & Bierman, P.L., City
Manager Paul E. Carlisle, and a Certified Court Reporter
Mayor Dodd announced the case to be discussed, reviewed who would be in attendance
and the estimated length of time. The City Clerk confirmed the meeting notice was
advertised on the corkboard in City Hall's lobby, on the website, and distributed to a
standing e-mail list as well as the Council Members.
Council Member Gilliams asked if they would take a vote on their decision when they
returned to the public portion of the meeting. The City Attorney advised that would be
discussed in the executive session. Council Member Gilliams stated his attorney advised
him that after the executive meeting they were to lake a vote. Mayor Dodd stated for the
record that Council Member Gilliams' attorney does not represent the City of Sebastian.
Council then convened to the 2ntl floor conference room at 5:05 p.m.
6. REOPENING OF PUBLIC MEETING TO ANNOUNCE TERMINATION OF ATTORNEY -
CLIENT SESSION — RECONVENE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Mayor Dodd announced the executive session was adjourned and convened the
Regular City Council meeting at 6:39 p.m.
There was unanimous consent to add an agreement between the City of Sebastian and
the Indian River County School Board for Two School Resource Officers as New
Business Item 13G.
PROCLAMATIONS. AWARDS. BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENTS
20.089 A. Presentation by the Gehrno Grouo - Emolovee Health. Dental. and Vision
Insurance Proaram for FY20121
Dustin Kuehn, Senior Benefit Consultant and Marc Rodriquez, Senior Analyst presented
a PowerPoint outlining the October 1" renewal with the insurance carriers for the
employee's health, dental and vision plan. (See attached)
It was discussed if the City should join a consortium with the County or Sheriffs office.
Mr. Kuehn explained that generally consortiums aren't successful because if an
organization is doing well they pull out.
Council Member thanked the Gehring Group for keeping the costs down for employees
and citizens.
Brief Announcements
The Community Development Department mailed out post cards to remind citizens of the
Stormwater Credit Program, Septic to Sewer Grants, and Fagade, Sign and Landscape Grants
are available. More information is available by calling 589-5516
Mayor Dodd briefly described the programs available through the Community
Development Department.
The City Manager stated the County will be reducing the amount they are offering
towards the impact fee credit as time goes on. It was the consensus of Council to ask
the County to rescind the reduction because of the coronavirus.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 2
Mayor Dodd reported that about 25% of the population hasn't responded to the 2020
Census yet and encouraged the public to respond to ensure Sebastian receives
$1,700 per resident/per year, for the next ten years, to pay for items such septic to
sewer conversions.
The City Manager reported the closest COVID testing was available at the North
County Fairgrounds on Monday and Wednesday from 8:30 to 10:30 a.m. He said
Sebastian would have to find a lab and pay for the tests to bring a site closer.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
20.090 A. Resolution No. R-20-11 — Abandonment of Side Yard Easements — 825 Sebastian
Boulevard (Transmittal, R-20-11, Site Map, Staff Report, Utility Approvals,
Application)
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF SEBASTIAN, INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
VACATING CERTAIN EASEMENTS OVER LOTS 2 AND 3, BLOCK 188. SEBASTIAN
HIGHLANDS UNIT 6, PROVIDING FOR CONFLICTS HEREWITH; PROVIDING FOR
RECORDING; PROVIDING FOR SCRIVENER'S ERRORS; PROVIDING FOR AN
EFFECTIVE DATE.
20.089 B. Formal Approval of Employee Group Health, Dental and Vision Insurance Policies for
the Year Beginning October 2, 2020 (Transmittal, Summary, PPT)
20.091 C. Authorize the Purchase of One 2020 Nissan Frontier King Cab Truck from Alan Jay
Fleet Sales under the Cooperative Sourcewell Contract #120716-NAF for the
Building Department in the Amount of $22,828. and Authorize the City Manager to
Execute the Appropriate Documents (Transmittal, Quote, Letters, Quote)
Mayor Dodd asked to pull item B. Vice Mayor Mauti asked to pull item C.
Mayor Dodd read the title of item A for the benefit of the public. MOTION by Council
Member Hill and SECOND by Vice Mayor Mauti approved Consent Agenda Item A passed
with a unanimous voice vote. 5-0
Item B
Mayor Dodd reported the City Clerk made a typographical error in the agenda title, the
beginning date should be October 1 and he made a MOTION with a SECOND by Council
Member Hill to approve the item which passed with a unanimous voice vote. 5-0
Item C
Vice Mayor Mauti stated he was concerned that the City was buying a vehicle for an
employee that might not make it off probation and suggested that City vehicles might be
reconditioned given the unknown impact of the coronavirus on the future budget.
The City Manager explained the vehicle was a budgeted item that will come from the
Building Department's Enterprise Fund for whoever makes it off probation and fills the
position.
MOTION by Council Member Hill and SECOND by Mayor Dodd to approve Consent Agenda
Item C.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 3
Roll call: Vice Mayor Mauti
- aye
Council Member Gilliams
- aye
Council Member Hill
- aye
Council Member Parris
- aye
Mayor Dodd
- aye
Motion carried. 5-0
9. COMMITTEE REPORTS & APPOINTMENTS
20.010 A. Parks Intearated Pest Management Plan Update (no backup)
The Leisure Services Director reported that staff, sub -committee members, along with the
scientific advisors reached a consensus on the Integrated Pest Management's Plan
pesticide methodology. This includes a list of approved chemicals which are compared
and assessed based on a numerical model called the Environmental Impact Quotient
(EIQ). The EIQ creates a score for chemicals based on a variety of human and
environmental risk factors. The EIQ is then formulated into an application rate of the
product and the area in which it is applied.
At the IPM sub -committee meeting on July 200, the committee unanimously approved the
flnal Integrated Pest Management Plan for Parks and Properties. He thanked the Natural
Resources Board Members Kathy Brothers, Brian O'Neill, Thomas Carrano and Jessica
Lovell; as well as scientific advisors Dr. Graham Cox, Christine Kelly-Begazo, Sharon
Tyson and Ruth Callaghan for their dedication and support in developing this plan. He
recognized the City's Environmental Technician Ms. Kim Haigler for all the hard work,
time, and effort she put into this plan noting she spent many late nights and weekends
putting together all of the input from the committee.
He said Monday July 27" the plan will be presented to the Parks and Recreation Advisory
Committee. The plan will then be brought to the Natural Resources Board on August 40
.
After review and approval from both of those boards, the final presentation of the
Integrated Pest Management Plan for Parks and Properties will be given to the City
Council along with a resolution for adoption at the August 26" Council Meeting.
Dr. Graham Cox said it was great to get this far with the plan.
Council Member Hill thanked the Leisure Services Director and the Committee for all the
hard work putting this together. He is looking forward to getting everything back to normal
in the City of Sebastian and getting the parks taken care of.
10. PUBLIC HEARINGS - None
11. UNFINISHED BUSINESS - None
12, PUBLIC INPUT
Christopher Nunn, Sebastian, said this was the citizen's opportunity to address Council
members so they can impress upon them how they feel. The most important job the
members have is to listen to all constituents and staff, research agenda items before the
meetings, then have discussions legally in the chambers.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 4
7:16 pm
Gil Gordian, Sebastian, asked how Sebastian could obtain a fire vessel (boat). Mayor
Dodd advised him to check with the County Fire Department.
Mr. Gordian suggested tubing be installed on the state land between the north and south
prong of the Sebastian River to cleanse some of the water in that area. The City
Manager suggested he approach the St. Johns River Water District or the Sebastian
River Improvement District to address that issue.
Michelle Moms said she was proud of the community for coming together to ensure that
Sebastian's voice is heard. She noted the public is watching the members to make sure
they are representing the community as a whole.
Ben Hacker thanked the City Manager for the handicapped boat ramp at the Yacht Club
and asked if the same will be installed at the Main Street ramp. The Mayor advised that
one is not planned for the Main Street boat ramp.
Andrea Coy, 501 Palm Avenue, said in an open letter to the citizens, Council Member
Mauti expressed concern that on July 14 he received three calls regarding Council's
decision at the executive session while he, himself released the decision in his letter.
She asked who leaked the information and was it acceptable for Council Members to
discuss executive session material.
Bob McPartlan said in regard to a certain Council Member stating he has his own
attorney to advise him, he asked what is the reason behind that Council Member going to
his own attorney. He would like to know who the attorney is and what is their written
opinion regarding the annexation.
13. NEW BUSINESS
20.092 A. Finalize the Citywide Desi(. n of the Citv's Master Sian Proiect by West Central Siqns.
Inc. (Transmittal. Details. Minutes Excerots)
Mayor Dodd stated the sign for the Pickleball Court was in the parking lot for their review
and an additional picture was in the agenda packet. The City Manager said the change they
wanted to show Council was the color of the post which gives a better portrayal of the faux
wood grain.
The Leisure Services Director said while working with the vendor, SignStar, staff didn't feel
the gray and black posts worked well with the wood theme so the color was changed to
what is before Council tonight.
Council Member Hill said the sign looks beautiful and looked forward to seeing them
throughout the City.
In response to Council Member Gilliams, Danny Powell with SignStar, explained different
components of the signs have different warranties, they are expected to last 5-10 years, and
they will be designed and permitted by a certified engineer.
The City Manager said if it was Council's decision, the discarded signs could be put out to
bid but the contract with SignStar includes disassembling and removing the signs. Mr. Pall
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 5
noted the signs won't come apart easily and will probably be damaged in the removal
process. It was the consensus of Council to have the signs removed as outlined in the
contract.
Mr. Powell gave Council Member Gilliams his contact information in case someone wanted
to secure one or two of the signs.
MOTION by Council Member Hill and SECOND by Vice Mayor Mauti to approve the color
change.
Mayor Dodd stated for the record, the three year financial commitment to replace the City's
signs is $262K.
Roll call: Council Member Gilliams -aye
Council Member Hill -aye
Council Member Parris - aye
Mayor Dodd -aye
Vice Mayor Mauti - aye
Motion carried. 5-0
20.002 B. ADDrove Pr000sed Millace Rate at 3.1514 for FY20/21 and Direct the City Manaoer
to Execute and Transmit the Reouired Forms (Transmittal. DR-420. PPTf
Mayor Dodd explained the City was required to provide a maximum millage rate amount to
the Tax Collector for publication on the TRIM notices. It is the practice to adopt a rate higher
because the City can't go higher as they move through the budget process without notifying
each resident by U.S. Mail, but the City can go lower.
The Chief Financial Officer said the process is outlined in state statute; the draft budget they
have recently received is based on current millage rate of 2.9399 and would be a 4.66%
increase over rolled -back; staff was recommending that the City goes back to previous year
of 3.1514 that will provide a 12.19% increase over rolled -back. He displayed a PowerPoint
presentation. (See attached)
He said he outlined his considerations on slide #23. Staff was recommending a millage rate
of 3.1514 with the hope for better news on the revenue side.
7:49 pm
The City Manager noted the rate they were about to set was not final and given that the
state won't set the revenue share until August, they might want to consider how the state will
affect the City if their share is too low.
Mayor Dodd said the Budget Review Advisory Committee and the Chief Financial Officer
have done a herculean effort in putting the budget together.
Council Member Hill said he also appreciated the Budget Committee and the CFO but he
was concerned there was nothing in the budget for the employees and the pending litigation.
He said he was in favor of the budget as presented and they needed to make sure they
have some cushion to protect themselves.
Vice Mayor Mauti stated he approved the budget.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 6
Council Member Gilliams said with the property values going up, it was a windfall budget.
The Chief Financial Officer said if 30% of the properties fell off the tax rolls because of a
hurricane event there would be several years of reduced income.
Council Member Gilliams asked the CFO how the taxpayers would feel with a 12% increase
while they are losing their jobs, homes and being evicted because of the coronavirus. The
CFO stated from his standpoint he needed to make sure the City could continue to operate
with the current income.
Point of Order was called by Council Member Hill. He stated the budget wasn't up to the
CFO, he was providing the numbers required to provide the level of service. Mayor Dodd
ruled in favor of Council Member Hill' point of order and asked Council Member Gilliams to
tone down how he was talking to the CFO.
Council Member Gilliams said he wanted to justify raising the taxes 12% when it would be
more realistic at 4%.
Mayor Dodd said there would be a budget hearing on August 26. Council Member Gilliams
said he was trying to convince two members they can go to 2.9 instead of 3.14.
MOTION by Mayor Dodd and SECOND by Vice Mayor Mauti to set the millage rate for the
TRIM notice at 3.1514.
In response to Council Member Gilliams, the Chief Financial Officer stated the following:
-the franchise fees will be level, as Iasi year
-local option gas tax helps out the general fund
-the discretionary sales tax funds were going to the new Public Works Facility
-the City was paid back from the occupational business tax money
-he did not include the CARES Act revenues in the budget because they are
restricted funds
-he was not aware If the County had $40M in reserves
The City Manager advised the monies allocated for the roadways and culverts were under
the road resurfacing plan. The $200K allocated for the stormwater master plan is to be seed
money to procure a grant writer to come up with a true master plan to designate water
basins, how water flows and develop a plan on how to drain the water.
Council Member Gilliams asked how the money in the Cemetery Trust Fund was bartered.
Point of Order was called by Council Member Hill. He stated Council Member Gilliams
knows that question was ludicrous; there was no contract that was bartered regarding the
cemetery's excess sand. Mayor Dodd ruled in favor of Council Member Hill's point of order.
Council Member Gilliams asked if the $1M in the Capital Improvement Program was to tap
the sewer into the County's line at the airport. The CFO responded the project would be
using grant funds and DST funds for the matching portion.
Point of Order was called by Council Member Hill. He stated Council Member Gilliams'
questions were about the budget itself and the current discussion item was the millage rate;
he suggested that Council Member Gilliams talk about the budget at the scheduled hearings
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 7
8:16 pm
8.22 pm
and say no to the proposed millage rate. Mayor Dodd ruled in favor of Council Member
Gilliams.
Council Member Gilliams said they should set the millage rate 2.9 and then go back to the
rolled -back rate. The CFO said they may wish for some flexibility until the budget is
adopted.
Mayor Dodd said for the last three years the City Council set these numbers to or below
rolled -back so he and Council Member Hill have not been frivolous in establishing the
budget at all; staff has done a herculean job given what is happening without increasing the
millage rate and he felt they do need a buffer.
Public Input
Andrea Ring asked if the budget held money to do baffle box at 171° Street. Mayor Dodd
said there was not. She asked if the Leisure Services Director had the ability to purchase a
piece of equipment that he has been holding off on with the budget. Mayor Dodd said staff
was working through that purchase.
Michelle Morris said she was appalled that only two only two Council Members spoke up in
opposition of the grilling of the City's professional department head.
Vera Render, 852 Mulberry Street, said she would rather pay extra taxes and maintain the
City that she had without the histrionics from the disrespectful Council Members, particularly
for the litigation that is coming.
Tracey Cole, said she was also upset with the way treat Council treats employees, not only
at the meetings but in e-mails. She noted the litigation claims against the City's insurance
will raise the rates. She asked the Mayor to control the Council Members in the future and
find a way to give staff a raise.
Grace Reed, Sebastian, said she was also appalled by the way the CFO was treated
tonight; she does not want her taxes to go up; and noted the CARES Act revenue cannot be
used to replace the cars.
Christopher Nunn, Sebastian, said the employees should never bear the burden of the City's
expenses; the way the CFO was treated was very disrespectful; the City will need money to
cover the insurance deductibles.
Bill Flynn said he has been talking to residents about the drainage problems and the City will
need a buffer in the budget; a wise man always plans.
Andrea Coy, Sebastian, said this was a historic moment because this was the first time
Council Member Hill was voting to keep the millage rate where it is set; she appreciated his
decision. She apologized to the CFO for the way he was treated. She said as a taxpayer
she was furious about the lawsuits.
Sharon Herman, Sebastian, said she cannot believe the way the CFO was treated, his
presentation was clear and concise; she didn't see any allowance for the lawsuits. She said
they will have to allow for variables in the budget. She said if another Council Member
needs to be educated by another Member maybe they shouldn't be on Council.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 8
Ben Hooker, Sebastian, said they were here to set the millage rate yet people are
badmouthing Council Members.
Joe Scozzan said he appreciated the CFO, in regard to the other public input comments, he
noted debate is good.
Bob McPartlan, Sebastian, said the CFO does a fantastic job; the reason the City holds
reserves is in case of an emergency noting San Marco was devastated by Hurricane Irma
and cost twice as much to come back.
Bob Stephen, 150 Concha Drive, said the environmentalists want Council to do what's right
for the community in regard to the annexation lawsuit. He said the City didn't need a new
Public Works Facility or new car for employees.
Council Member Gilliams apologized to the CFO if he took his questions as demeaning.
Roll call: Council Member Hill - aye
Council Member Parris - aye
Mayor Dodd - aye
Vice Mayor Mauti - aye
Council Member Gilliams - nay
Motion carried. 4-1
20.093 C. ADorove Sub -Grant Agreement between the City of Sebastian and Indian River
Countv for CARES Act Fundino in the Amount of ,$924.322.00 and Authorize the City
Manaaer to Comglate and Sign the Necessary Documents (Transmittal. Reauest.
Agreement. Guidelines. Reoort)
Mayor Dodd said this was for the City accepting the grant.
The City Manager explained the County has received the money and now the City must be
agree with the terms of the grant agreement by July 28".
MOTION by Mayor Dodd and SECOND by Vice Mayor Mauti to approve the sub -grant
agreement between the City of Sebastian and Indian River County for CARES Act Funding
and authorize the City Manager to complete and sign the necessary documents.
Council Member Gilliams stated this money could have paid for testing if it was available.
The City Manager responded that he has explained to Council Member Gilliams that he has
been trying since March to get the COVID-19 testing; the Arizona test that he wants is not
available.
Sharon Herman said everyone has the information; the City Manager has done an
outstanding job.
Roll call: Council Member Parris - aye
Mayor Dodd - aye
Vice Mayor Mauti - aye
Council Member Gilliams - aye
Council Member Hill - aye
Motion carried. 5-0
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 9
20.093 D. Resolution No. R-20-10 provingq the COVID-19 Recovery and Stimulus Plan Grant
Aoolication Process and ubmittal to Indian River Countv for Pre-Aooroval
(Transmittal. R-20-10. Plan. Documents)
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF SEBASTIAN, INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
ADOPTING A COVID-19 RECOVERY AND STIMULUS PLAN, PROVIDING FOR A GRANT
APPLICATION PROCESS; PROVIDING THAT THE CITY SHALL BE REIMBURSED FOR
SUCH GRANTS WITH FUNDS FROM THE CORONAVIRUS AID, RELIEF AND ECONOMIC
SECURITY (CARES) ACT FEDERAL STIMULUS PACKAGE SHARED BY INDIAN RIVER
COUNTY; AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO CAUSE SAID PLAN TO BE PUT INTO
EFFECT; PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF RESOLUTIONS OR PARTS OF RESOLUTIONS
IN CONFLICT HEREWITH; PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY AND PROVIDING FOR AN
EFFECTIVE DATE.
The City Manager said the CFO has put together the plan to distribute the CARES Act grant
monies by December 31"; it will cost about $10-12K to administer the program; and it will
reimburse what the City has already spent to date on personal protection equipment (PPE).
Mayor Dodd asked to change #4 of page 116—the small business must have at least two or
no more than 20 independent contractors to small businesses with no more than 20
employees to allow the single proprietors to apply.
Mayor Dodd said on page 117, the employees could apply for the employee grant, even if
their employer applied for the business grant.
Also on page 117, he asked to remove the word must from #4 so employees who aren't
behind on their rent can apply because there are employees that haven't received any help
and they are having a hard time making payments.
Council Member Parris asked that in #1, the requirement to have a storefront be removed
because there are people working from home that are suffering as well. The City Manager
noted home based businesses were not shut down. Mayor Dodd noted the businesses that
aren't served in the first round might be able to be served in the next round.
Council Member Gilliams asked if they should cut the grant to $3K will make the money go
further. The City Manager said the grant has to make a difference in helping the businesses.
There was no consensus to divide the $5K allotments.
MOTION by Mayor Dodd and SECOND by Council Member Hill to approve Resolution No.
R-20-10 the COVID-19 Recovery and Stimulus Plan Grant with the following two strikeouts:
Item #4 (page 116) "Must be a small business that as of March 1, 2020 had
no more than
20 full time and/or part time employees or independent contractors..."
Item #4 (page 117) "Must Show evidence of being past dues on rent,
utilities or other essential expenses ... "
Christopher Nunn, Sebastian, asked if there was any provision that if someone that was
behind on their taxes could apply for this grant. Mayor Dodd responded that it does
stipulate an applicant cannot have any outstanding code violations.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 10
8:57 pm
Tracey Cole asked what the time frame was that businesses can apply. Mayor Dodd said
there would be no applications until it was applied for by the County and advertised by the
City Manager.
Sharon Herman, Sebastian, commended Mayor Dodd for his changes and asked if Council
Members would have to wait at the end of the line. Mayor Dodd said there were no
stipulations.
Roll call: Mayor Dodd - aye
Vice Mayor Mauti - aye
Council Member Gilliams - aye
Council Member Hill - aye
Council Member Paris - aye
Motion carried. 5-0
20.003 E. Aoorove Additional Grant Administration Services by Guardian CRM. Inc. for the
Communitv Develooment Block Proaram Utilizino CARES Act Funding in the Amount
of $14.955. (Transmittal. CSA. Letter)
Mayor Dodd stated this item was to provide additional Community Development Block Grant
(CDBG) services by utilizing the CARES Act funding.
MOTION by Vice Mayor Mauti and SECOND by Council Member Parris to approve the
CARES Act funding to provide additional CDBG services.
There was no public comment
Roll call: Vice Mayor Mauti
- aye
Council Member Gilliams
- aye
Council Member Hill
- aye
Council Member Parris
- aye
Mayor Dodd
- aye
Motion carried. 5-0
20.036 F. Florida Leapue of Cities Items (Transmittal. FLC Info)
i. Council Appointee Annual Business Meeting
MOTION by Council Member Hill and SECOND by Council Member Gilliams to have Mayor
Dodd represent Sebastian at the business meeting passed with a voice vote of 5-0.
Andrea Ring thanked Mayor Dodd for serving.
Added G. Ap rove Aareement Between the School Board of Indian River Countv and the City
of Sebastian for the School Resource Officer Proaram and Authorize the Mavor to
Execute Aoorooriate Documents (Transmittal. Aareement)
MOTION by Council Member Hill and SECOND by Mayor Dodd to approve the School
Resource Officer Agreement.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 11
Council Member Gilliams requested that the City Attorney sign off on legal documents. For
the record, the City Attorney stated he did review the agreement.
There was no public comment.
Roll call: Vice Mayor Mauti
- aye
Council Member Gilliams
- aye
Council Member Hill
- aye
Council Member Parris
- aye
Mayor Dodd
- aye
Motion carried. 5-0
14. CITY ATLOBNEY_MAIIERS - None
15. CITY MANAGER MATTERS
Fireworks on September 4th
The City Manager stated staff was concerned there could still be a lot of positive COVID-19
testing around September 51" which was the date they moved the fireworks display to and he
asked if staff should purchase the fireworks or not; they were not storable or refundable.
Council Member Hill was in favor of having the celebration, the fireworks would be outside
where they could social distance.
Council Members Gilliams and Parris were against it.
Vice Mayor Mauti noted there were ways to social distance, he supported having the
fireworks.
Mayor Dodd stated the cost was minor, he proposed that staff plan the fireworks and check
if needed, can they go to December. He did not think the parade would be possible.
Riverview Park Sidewalk Procram
The City Manager reported that the contractor would be starting on the sidewalk next week
so they will see sections closed down for construction.
Waste Management
The City Manager stated Waste Management operations have been affected by the
coronavirus; they have gone to seven days notification to remove bulk trash and the
vegetative debris pickup will be a day behind.
16, CITY CLERK MATTERS - None
17. CITY COUNCIL MATTERS
A. Council Member Parris applauded the community for their city involvement. She said the
reason she was interested in health insurance for council members was to attract quality
candidates.
She said the old signs might be of interest to sign collectors to use for the upcoming
centennial celebration.
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 12
She advised the public to expect debate on questions because the dais is the only place
Council Members they are allowed to do it.
She asked the public to social distance and wear masks given the spike in positive testing.
Council Member Parris thanked the Chief Acosta for his efforts in making the community feel
safe given the state of the nation and the Chief Financial Officer for his budget preparation.
B. Vice Mayor Mauti said in response to comments made at the last meeting that people did
not come to the Planning and Zoning annexation meetings, the time limit for each speaker
was reduced to hear the number of speakers that were in attendance; in addition, he made
a motion to have staff review the items presented by Indian River County Administrator
Jason Brown and Utilities Director Vincent Burke to make a recommendation to City Council.
He said he looked carefully at the annexation and the statement that some needed
education was very upsetting to him because he has followed it from the beginning.
He thanked the Chief Financial Officer for the excellent job.
C. Council Member Gilliams requested Council consensus to have the cameras continue to
roll during breaks so people can see the side bar issues. Mayor Dodd asked what side bar
issues he was referring to because he could not support him unless he knew what he was
talking about. Mayor Dodd said his vote consensus was no.
Council Member Hill said he found his request hilarious when it was him that accosted the
City Attorney, got in his face and started yelling at him at a previous meeting.
Council Member Hill and Vice Mayor Mauti did not want the cameras rolling during the
break. The consensus was 3-2 to not have the cameras rolling during break.
Council Member Gilliams stated that if the public wanted real news to go to lcpalm.com; if
they wanted gossip go to SebastianDaily.com.
D. Council Member Hill congratulated Mayor Dodd for running a meeting that was
accomplished. He thanked the Police Officers, the Charter Officers, the CFO and all staff.
He said in response his frequent Zoom attendance lately; he has to travel more and make
less money but was grateful to the Governor for allowing the Zoom attendance right now.
E. Mayor Dodd asked Council for consensus to support the City Manager in implementing a
mask policy in unison with Indian River County should the County Commission require face
masks. Vice Mayor Mauti, Council Member Gilliams, Council Member Parris and he would
support the wearing of masks. Council Member Hill was opposed to the mandate.
The City Manager stated he would follow the consensus of City Council.
18. Being no further business, Mayor Dodd adjourned the Regular City Council Meeting at 9:27 p.m.
Approved at the August 26, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting. ATTEST.,
�i fT� �CLfYIQ
Mayor Ed Dodd 4114f(e„MIYBfis,-iily Clerk
July 22, 2020 Regular City Council Meeting
Page 13
FORM 8B MEMORANDUM OF VOTING CONFLICT FOR
COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, AND OTHER LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICERS
NAME —FIRST NAME —MIDDLE NAME
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NAME O BOARD, COUNCIL, COMMISSION AUTHORITY, OR COMM TTEE
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THE BOARD, COUNCIL, COMMISSION, AUTHORITY OR COMMITTEE ON
WHICH I SERVE IS UNIT OF
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NAME OF CITJ&ALSUBDIVISION
DATE ON HICH VOTE OCCURRED c-f 13r ZV Ld
MY POSITION IS:
I 0' ELECTIVE U APPOINTIVE
WHO MUST FILE FORM 8B
This form is for use by any person serving at the county, city, or other local level of government on an appointed or elected board, council,
commission, authority, or committee. It applies to members of advisory and non -advisory bodies who are presented with a vot ng conflict of
interest under Section 112.3143, Florida Statutes.
Your responsibilities under the law when faced with voting on a measure in which you have a conflict of interest will vary grea'1y depending
on whether you hold an elective or appointive position. For this reason, please pay close attention to the instructions on this; form before
completing and filing the form.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 112.3143, FLORIDA STATUTES
A person holding elective or appointive county, municipal, or other local public office MUST ABSTAIN from voting on a measure which
would inure to his or her special private gain or loss. Each elected or appointed local officer also MUST ABSTAIN from knowingly voting on
a measure which would inure to the special gain or loss of a principal (other than a government agency) by whom he or she is retained
(including the parent, subsidiary, or sibling organization of a principal by which he or she is retained); to the special private gain or loss of a
relative; or to the special private gain or loss of a business associate. Commissioners of community redevelopment agencies ,CRAB) under
Sec. 163.356 or 163.357, F.S., and officers of independent special tax districts elected on a one -acre, one -vote basis are tot prohibited
from voting in that capacity.
For purposes of this law, a "relative' includes only the officer's father, mother, son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father-in-law,
mother-in-law, son-in-law, and daughter-in-law. A "business associate' means any person or entity engaged in or carrying (In a business
enterprise with the officer as a partner, joint venturer, coowner of property, or corporate shareholder (where the shares of tf e corporation
are not listed on any national or regional stock exchange).
ELECTED OFFICERS:
In addition to abstaining from voting in the situations described above, you must disclose the conflict:
PRIOR TO THE VOTE BEING TAKEN by publicly stating to the assembly the nature of your interest in the measure on Nhich you are
abstaining from voting; and I
WITHIN 15 DAYS AFTER THE VOTE OCCURS by completing and filing this form with the person responsible for recording the
minutes of the meeting, who should incorporate the form in the minutes.
APPOINTED OFFICERS:
Although you must abstain from voting in the situations described above, you are not prohibited by Section 112.3143 from otherwise
participating in these matters. However, you must disclose the nature of the conflict before making any attempt to influence the decision,
whether orally or in writing and whether made by you or at your direction.
IF YOU INTEND TO MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION PRIOR TO THE MEETING AT WHICH THE VOTE WILL BE
TAKEN:
You must complete and file this form (before making any attempt to influence the decision) with the person responsible fol recording the
minutes of the meeting, who will incorporate the form in the minutes. (Continued on page 2)
CE FORM 8B - EFF. 11/2013 PAGE 1
Adopted by reference in Rule 34.7.010(1)(0. F.R.C.
APPOINTED OFFICERS (continued)
• A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the agency.
• The form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed.
IF YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION EXCEPT BY DISCUSSION AT THE MEETING:
• You must disclose orally the nature of your conflict in the measure before participating.
You must complete the form and file it within 15 days after the vote occurs with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the
meeting, who must incorporate the form in the minutes. A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the
agency, and the form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed.
DISCLOSURE OF LOCAL OFFICER'S INTEREST Sjt,,,r,S�E�
1, vA_e.� l� ` r hereby disclose that on �vT c� 4 r Zo 2ta" 0 �� ] 2Z 20 2
(a) A measure came or will come before my agency which (check one or more)
inured to my special private gain or loss;
inured to the special gain or loss of my business associate,.
inured to the special gain or loss of my relative.
inured to the special gain or loss of , by
whom I am retained; or
inured to the special gain or loss of which
is the parent subsidiary, or sibling organization or subsidiary of a principal which has retained me.
(b) The measure before my agency and the nature of my conflicting interest in the measure is as follows:
C,,Yb4JA Vtf'V lr�ln t F—, I, .-r f- ll � JN 1G
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If disclosure of specific information would violate confidentiality or privilege pursuant to law or rules governing attorneys, a public officer,
who is also an attorney, may comply with the disclosure requirements of this section by disclosing the nature of the interest in such a way
as to provide the public with notice of the conflict.
9 sOL•z0
Date Filed
Signatur
NOTICE: UNDER PROVISIONS OF FLORIDA STATUTES §112.317, A FAILURE TO MAKE ANY REQUIRED DISCLOSURE
CONSTITUTES GROUNDS FOR AND MAY BE PUNISHED BY ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: IMPEACHMENT,
REMOVAL OR SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT, DEMOTION, REDUCTION IN SALARY, REPRIMAND, OR A
CIVIL PENALTY NOT TO EXCEED $10,000.
CE FORM 8B - EFF. 11/2013
Adopted by reference in Rule 34-7.010(1)(f), F.A.G.
ISTMAW61111111111
SEBASTIAN CITY COUNCIL
SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA
ATTORNEY -CLIENT CLOSED SESSION
IN RE: PELICAN ISLAND AUDUBON SOCIETY, GRAHAM COX, and
DONNA HALLERAN v. CITY OF SEBASTIAN
CASE NO.: 19AP142
*** SEALED ***
JULY 22, 2020
5:09 p.m. - 6:24 p.m.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
1225 MAIN STREET
SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA 32958
IN ATTENDANCE:
Ed Dodd, Mayor
Charles Mauti, Vice Mayor
Damien Gilliams, Council Member
Jim Hill, Council Member (By Zoom Video)
Pamela Parris, Council Member
Manny Anon, Jr., City Attorney
Paul E. Carlisle, City Manager
Daniel L. Abbott, Esquire, Special Counsel (By
Zoom Video)
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2
I SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA: JULY 22, 2020
2 WHEREUPON:
3 MAYOR DODD: All right. I see the time at 5:09.
4 I'm going to call to order the Shade Meeting for the
5 Sebastian City Council related to the Graves Annexation
6 suit. If it's acceptable to everybody, we'll follow the
7 same procedure we did at the last meeting. Is that
8 acceptable?
9 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm going to... umm...
10 MAYOR DODD: I'm sorry?
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm going to... umm...
12 not -- Okay. We'll go with that.
13 MAYOR DODD: Okay. All right. And let's let
14 Mr. Anon introduce us -- Well, first, let's start with
15 introductions for the court reporter. Paul, will you go
16 first.
17 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: Sure. Paul Carlisle, City
18 Manager, City of Sebastian.
19 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Manny Anon, Jr., city
20 attorney.
21 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Charles Mauti, Vice Mayor.
22 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Damien Gilliams, city
23 councilman.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Pamela Parris, city
25 council.
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3
1 MAYOR DODD: Ed Dodd, Mayor. Okay. Now -- oh,
2 and on Zoom is... Jim, will you introduce yourself.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Yeah. Jim Hill, city
4 councilman extraordinaire.
5 MAYOR DODD: Mr. Abbott, will you introduce
6 yourself, please.
7 MR. ABBOTT: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I am Dan
8 Abbott, outside counsel on this matter.
9 MAYOR DODD: All right. Now, Manny.
10 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Everyone's name appears on
11 the table and on that screen. Okay. So just like last
12 time, I'm just going to read a script.
13 For the record, obviously, my name is Manny Anon,
14 Jr., city attorney. I'm here with Dan Abbott who just
15 introduced himself, outside litigation counsel with the firm
16 Weiss, Serota, Helfman, Cole & Bierman. He served as the
17 litigation counsel for the city of... for the city on, on
18 this annexation case.
19 We are here today because Dan and I expressed the
20 other day a need for advice concerning litigation which is
21 currently pending with... against the city in the Nineteenth
22 Judicial Circuit Court of Indian River County, Florida,
23 i.e., the Pelican Island Audubon Society, et al. and City of
24 Sebastian. And that's Case No. 19A, as in alpha, P, papa,
25 142.
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0
1 Specifically, I'm in need of advice concerning
2 settlement negotiations, strategy pertaining to this matter
3 more, more towards negotiations. I'll discuss that in a
4 second.
5 As previously indicated, this session has been
6 appropriately announced and advertised pursuant to Florida
7 law. This session is being held pursue to Florida Statute
8 286.011, subsection 8, which provides an exception to the
9 Sunshine Law by allowing a governmental entity to meet
10 privately with its attorneys to discuss such matters as we
11 discuss here today. And the actual term for it, Mr. Mayor,
12 and Council Member Gilliams, is attorney -client session.
13 People don't like using the "shade" comment anymore,
14 either... the legal term for it is attorney -client session.
15 MAYOR DODD: Attorney -client session, okay.
16 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: This session, again, I would
17 remind you that the statutory exception is narrowly
18 construed by the courts. We must confine our discussions --
19 all discussions to settlement negotiations which we'll try
20 to address that here today and strategy related to this
21 matter. Any other discussions could be considered violation
22 of the Sunshine Law. And there are, in fact, cases to that
23 effect and I won't get into that.
24 Obviously, anything and everything that's said in
25 this room is confidential and cannot go outside of this room
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5
I until it becomes public. I know I'll repeat this next
2 phrase a couple of times. There can be no formal vote or
3 final action taken in this meeting. I repeat that because
4 there were issues last time with the mayor and I about
5 taking votes. We're not taking a vote. The attorney and I
6 would like to feel where we're at, where we're going so we
7 can make decisions. All final actions and all final votes,
8 when this case is over, need to be taken in public not
9 during this... not even during this attorney -client session.
10 The purpose of this session is to discuss
11 settlement negotiations and strategies related to what we
12 need and where we're going to go to allow discussions
13 amongst yourselves and with us which can help you make a
14 decision as to which course of direction you want to take in
15 this litigation.
16 Court reporter here to take notes. He will
17 transcribe everything we say here today within a reasonable
18 period after the session and it will become... it will go to
19 the city clerk and she will hold it, hope that's sealed,
20 until the conclusion of this litigation including any and
21 all appeals. The transcription of this session will also be
22 available at the public at the conclusion of litigation. I
23 want to make it clear to everyone on that. Obviously, we,
24 we argued that last time: Case is not finished until all
25 the appeals are finished.
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1 If at any time we find that discussions are
2 tending to go into matters outside of the statutory
3 exception, again, I will try to corral us back into what
4 we're trying to talk about. It's not -- again, I'm not
5 trying to be rude, I'm just trying to stay within the
6 confines of what we can have a discussion here today.
7 Last time Mr. Abbott already spoke about in detail
8 about the descriptions of the lawsuit, you know, last week:
9 Where we were and where we want to go now so I'm not going
10 to rehash that nor is he going to rehash that. The main
11 thing I'm here to discuss today -- Let me take it out.
12 (PAUSE.) The main thing that I want to specifically discuss
13 today and I think everyone has copies of it and referring to
14 Section 13 of the annexation agreement, general term "D," as
15 in delta, on the bottom of page 9, four line from the bottom
16 up and read... I'm going to read it:
17 (Reading) The parties agreeing to cooperate
18 fully in connection with the defense negotiation or
19 settlement of any such legal proceeding, claim or
20 demand.
21 I just wanted council to be fully aware of this
22 language. I'm not sure they were last time we met, that's
23 why I'm having this additional session. I know there's
24 conversations: Some people are saying they never got the
25 agreement. I've heard otherwise but I wasn't here during
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7
1 the last session so Mr. Abbott can talk about that.
2 The main thing is I want everyone to be fully
3 aware of that language, that's it, to discuss what that
4 means, I'll let Mr. Abbott discuss what that means, and its
5 impact, if any, and be able to make an informed decision, I
6 will gauge you no votes, decisions pertaining to negotiation
7 settlement or where we want to go.
8 Now I'll let Mr. Abbott address what he believed
9 the impact of this language, if any, going forward or not
10 going forward with any settlement or negotiations --
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Excuse me real quick.
12 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- Mr. Abbott -- Yes, sir.
13 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That thing you just
14 quoted, what page was that on?
15 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Nine.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Oh, it was on page 9?
17 MAYOR DODD: Nine. Fourth line up.
18 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: The one that you had me read
19 yesterday. It's here, sir.
20 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. I'm looking at a
21 different... you're looking at the...
22 MAYOR DODD: The agreement, page 9, four --
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay.
24 MAYOR DODD: Yeah.
25 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Okay. Mr. Abbott, I
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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I apologize. You want me to repeat my question or you heard
2 it?
3 MR. ABBOTT: Thank you, Manny. Let me back up
4 just, just, just a half a step. I will not recap what,
5 what, what we discussed at the very last executive session.
6 I'll kind of speak up after that moment.
7 The morning after the executive session when we
8 received direction from the council to not further proceed
9 with appeals of the Pelican Island matter, I sent an e-mail
10 to the city attorney sort of starting off... I mean, I had
11 been, I had been retained for one task and based upon the
12 direction of the council that task seemed to have come to an
13 end. And I think I mentioned three points to, to, to
14 Mr. Anon: The first is that, pursuant to the annexation
15 agreement it's Graves Brothers that was responsible for the
16 defense cost that the city incurred in defending the Pelican
17 Island challenge including the fee award that the circuit
18 court indicated that it would eventually enter in favor of
19 Pelican Island. So those pursuant to the annexation
20 agreement are the responsibility of Graves and there are
21 time frames for asserting those claims and I wanted to make
22 sure that your city attorney was aware of that to pursue
23 them.
24 The other two things in the e-mail were really
25 intended to further protect the city in the event that
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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S
1 Graves Brothers intended to pursue a cause of action against
2 the city. And those, those two items were... first of all,
3 I thought that, that he might want to solicit a legal
4 opinion in terms of whether or not further appeal of the
5 circuit court decision was likely to be successful; and
6 secondly, I suggested that he advise Graves Brothers as soon
7 as possible so that Graves Brothers could perhaps further
8 the appeal in their own name should they so desire. And I
9 thought that those would protect the city.
10 The city attorney followed up with me, and he'll
11 correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general tenor of
12 his concern was, I wrote three things about the annexation
13 agreement and we didn't really discuss the annexation
14 agreement in our last executive session.
15 If you have a good memory, you may recall we did
16 discuss that annexation agreement extensively in our first
17 executive session when, when we did discuss what potential
18 implications would be if the city did not defend the Pelican
19 Island appeal.
20 But I think that the reason that the, the city
21 attorney has asked for an executive session today is to make
22 sure that the, that the council is aware of the annexation
23 agreement and that we can answer any questions you may have
24 in terms of... in terms of, I guess, the likelihood of
25 liability in the event that Graves Brothers pursues
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10
1 litigation against the city based on that annexation
2 agreement. Having said that, I'm here to answer any
3 questions that, that any member of the council may have.
4 MAYOR DODD: Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to
5 start off. I guess the very first question in my mind, line
6 22, third from the top: Fully cooperate or cooperate fully.
7 Does that mean that if we choose not to appeal that the
8 Graves Brothers will have an opportunity to not reimburse us
9 for the legal fees?
10 MR. ABBOTT: Well, I, I would say that they're
11 separate issues. I mean, the annexation agreement is a
12 contract and either party can sue the other party for
13 alleged breach of the agreement.
14 I don't think it would really be a valid defense
15 for Graves Brothers when we send them a bill for the
16 litigation cost for them to say that the city breached
17 another provision. I, I, I think they would probably have
18 to bring that as an affirmative claim so I'm not sure that's
19 really a defense to the fee provision but again,
20 theoretically, they could... they, they could sue you for
21 damages if they allege that the city also breached the
22 development agreement.
23 MAYOR DODD: Okay. And, and prior, prior to, to
24 that clause where it says the owner shall be entitled to
25 participate and to the extent they may elect by written
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11
1 notice delivered properly to the city and received notice
2 for the city to assume the defense --
3 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, sir.
4 MAYOR DODD: -- now that infers to me that, that
5 we have to notify them and they can choose to appeal on
6 their own if they choose to appeal.
7 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Pursuant to the
8 sentence you just read, way back in the day shortly after
9 Pelican Island filed this brief we notified Graves Brothers
10 of the pendency of that, of that proceeding, and we met
11 with, with the, I believe, the president with a
12 representative of Graves and with their counsel; and at that
13 meeting, they agreed that I would represent the city in
14 connection with that litigation. So, so both parties were
15 aware of that sentence and they complied with that sentence.
16 Now, I'm not sure that that sentence means we
17 needed to reconvene in connection with a potential appeal of
18 the appeal so to speak. I don't know if that answers your
19 question or not. But certainly the owner was entitled to
20 participate below, they elected not to participate, and they
21 agreed that me and my firm would, would represent the city
22 in connection with the circuit court objection from... filed
23 by, by Pelican Island.
24 MAYOR DODD: Okay. I... And, and, you know, I'm
25 not an attorney. I'm just an old business guy who did a lot
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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12
1 of contract stuff. And I understand why they would put this
2 in there because they're, they were agreeing to assume the
3 liability for any defense and they want an opportunity if
4 the city falls down on that to pick up defense themselves
5 and possibly not to reimburse.
6 So if the Graves Brothers picks up the appeal on
7 their own and they win the appeal then it's fine, the
8 annexation goes through and the city is bound by the
9 annexation, assuming they pick up the appeal on their own.
10 If they pick up the appeal on their own and they
11 lose the appeal then we're right back where we are today
12 with the exception that Graves Brothers has had to pay the
13 fees and then there still is in my mind an opportunity for
14 them to file suit against us to not pay the fees up to the
15 point where we chose -- even if they use you as their
16 attorney -- up to the point where we chose not to do the
17 appeal and so we'd have to pay legal fees in order to defend
18 ourselves against that if they choose to file that; is that
19 correct?
20 MR. ABBOTT: Well, I mean, certainly the last
21 thing, Mr. Mayor, that you said I agree with. Any, any,
22 anyone who's got a 400-dollar filing fee can sue you; and if
23 they sue you, you would incur cost in defending that claim.
24 In terms of whether or not Graves is likely to win
25 that challenge, I think not. I think that Graves agreed
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13
1 that my firm would defend the Pelican Island challenge and
2 the fees incurred were reasonable in that and the agreement
3 seems to provide that they have to reimburse us for that.
4 If they want to affirmatively claim that the city
5 breached by not appealing the circuit court decision to, to
6 the Fourth District Court of Appeal, I'm not sure their main
7 claim for relief is going to be reimbursement for the
8 attorney fees. I think it more likely, if they were to file
9 such a claim, they're going to claim damages from not
10 ultimately being annexed into the city. And I'm not sure
11 that claim would have much merit either.
12 MAYOR DODD: Okay. So basically, I, I'd just like
13 to cut to the bottom line. I like yes and no answers and I
14 know it's hard for attorneys to give those. I like to cut
15 to the bottom line of things.
16 And it appears to me we're in a situation where
17 the, the... this contract basically sets us up to where we
18 may or may not have to defend a decision by Graves to file
19 suit to not pay us legal fees. But if Graves is part of any
20 settlement that we do then they're going to have to pay us
21 legal fees.
22 And so I. I, I think the best solution for us, the
23 simplist solution for us and I'm going to put this on the
24 floor and then we can discuss it as we go around the room
25 to... everybody can discuss it, is that we file a notice of
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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14
1 appeal and then we instruct the city attorney, city manager,
2 and outside attorney to begin negotiations immediately with
3 the parties in the suit and try to come to a negotiated
4 settlement that includes the Graves Brothers. That means
5 that they are part and partial to that negotiated
6 settlement.
7 Looking at the, at the court document that was
8 filed, the suit by, by the Pelican Island people had a lot
9 of clau -- a lot of things in it they were suing:
10 Procedural issues, all kinds of issues. The only thing the
11 Court could find wrong was the fact that the person that
12 works for us who put an ad in the newspaper put the wrong
13 map in it. That almost sounds like they wanted to find in
14 case of the plaintiff. But that's the only thing they could
15 find wrong.
16 And quite frankly, the city could very simply drop
17 the appeal, wait a couple months, run a new map, the correct
18 one in the ad, and re -annex the land and we're right back
19 where we started. That gives us an opportunity, I believe,
20 to sit down with these guys and negotiate a settlement with
21 them and bring Graves into the settlement negotiation, have
22 them agree to it, and then we're right back where they're
23 going to pay all the legal fees. And I think it's a, I
24 think it's a simple approach. It gets us off the hook of
25 possibly having to end up in court over the legal fees and
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1 it gets us in a position where we might actually be able to
2 settle this with the Pelican Island.
3 I've always, always felt like that we were going
4 to be negotiating with everybody including the county on
5 this thing before it was over with and we might as well
6 start the negotiation now so that's my position.
7 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I just want to add just
8 one -- to correct one thing you said for the record. Graves
9 can come back but this is... the annexation is a voluntary
10 process, we know that, so they will have to come back
11 voluntarily to start this process --
12 MAYOR DODD: Well, I understand that. I
13 understand that. I, I, I understand.
14 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: When we say --
15 MAYOR DODD: All I'm saying is that, that it
16 would... it's, it's not as... none of the procedural issues
17 that were raised in that court suit were found to be
18 incorrect.
19 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I just want to make sure
20 it's... we're clear because if I want to assume that --
21 MAYOR DODD: No, I understand.
22 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- that the --
23 MAYOR DODD: And I, I personally am not sure that
24 they would come back because I know it's a lot of pressure
25 on them, and this is outside the confines of this, but
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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HIN
1 there's a lot of pressure on them right now to go to another
2 city so I don't know that they would come back. But so
3 that's my... that, that's -- I'll just leave that out for a
4 train of thought so let's go around the room. Vice Mayor
5 Mauti.
6 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: So your train of thought is not
7 to appeal?
8 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I'm sorry?
9 MAYOR DODD: No. Okay. If we, if we file the
10 appeal we get what? Mr. Abbott, is it what? Three months
11 before you have to actually file the appeal document?
12 MR. ABBOTT: Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Under these
13 circumstances, I'm sorry to say, that's not the case. That
14 is the case for appeals. And remember I said before that
15 while using the word appeal is... mostly doesn't get us into
16 trouble, technically what this would be would be a petition
17 for second -tier certiorari. So we file a notice of appeal,
18 that's just a one -page document. And the mayor is right, I
19 mean, you can print it off your word processor and it takes
20 five minutes and then three months later you file a
21 substantive paper. That's not the case for this kind of
22 appeal.
23 For this kind of appeal you have to file
24 substantive documents. So if we wanted to further appeal,
25 if we want to go up to the Fourth District Court of Appeal
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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17
1 we would have to within the next week file our substantive
2 document arguing that the circuit court panel had erred. So
3 there would be quite a bit of work involved if you decided
4 to pursue a challenge to the panel decision.
5 MAYOR DODD: What's the... what would be the
6 overall cost of that, roughly?
7 MR. ABBOTT: Oh, gosh, well, umm, you know,
8 probably not more than $10,000 or so. But, but that means,
9 you know, 30, 40, 50 hours of work or something. It would
10 not be an insubstantial document.
11 MAYOR DODD: Okay. See, I was under the
12 impression that when we talked that we file a notice of
13 appeal and we got time then before we actually file the
14 documents.
15 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Well, I think -- How much
16 time after you file that document, Dan, is the question the
17 mayor was saying. How much time before it even goes to
18 court hearing? I think it's... I mean, do we have time? I
19 think the mayor's... between the time we file it --
20 MR. ABBOTT: Here's what the procedure would be:
21 Once again, we would have to file the full substantive
22 document, the document that argues why the circuit court is
23 wrong; then, a judge at the Fourth District Court of Appeal
24 would look at that document and see if on its face it has a
25 prima facie argument for reversal; if it does, they would
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1 issue what's called an order to show cause to Pelican
2 Island, essentially ordering Pelican Island to submit their
3 substantive arguments to argue why the city is wrong in its
4 petition and then the city would have an opportunity to file
5 its reply. So that's the way petitions for writ of
6 certiorari work.
7 MAYOR DODD: What kind of a time frame are we
8 looking at before we have to do something beyond the first
9 document?
10 MR. ABBOTT: That, the only, the only date I can
11 tell you is the date for the first document which is within
12 30 days of the circuit court decision. Everything after
13 that is... I don't know if the Fourth District will issue an
14 order to show cause, and if they do I'm not sure how much
15 time they will give Pelican Island to file their brief.
16 Sort of the standard rule of thumb is if an order
17 to show cause is issued, you usually give a party 30 days to
18 respond, although, they can move for extensions of time.
19 But in terms of how long after we file the document that the
20 Fourth District Court of Appeal would decide whether or not
21 to issue an order to show cause is really a difficult
22 question to answer. There's no, there's no rule that
23 requires them to, to issue an order with any particular
24 period of time.
25 MAYOR DODD: Okay.
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: So, Dan, this is Manny, just
2 to be clear then, I think the deadline is the end of this
3 month. I believe it was June -- July 30, I believe it was
4 30 days.
5 MR. ABBOTT: I said that. That's exactly right.
6 Yes, the decision was June 30th so if we receive direction
7 to seek second -tier certiorari we have to file the document
8 in about a week.
9 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: So when that document is
10 filed, how -- just that first document, usually how long
11 will the Fourth DCA in your opinion take to just render its
12 initial decision if it's going to decide the matter in that
13 and not show cause, just render it on its merits?
14 MR. ABBOTT: I'm sorry, Manny, I really can't
15 answer that question. I've seen it take any length of time.
16 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Okay.
17 MR. ABBOTT: And, and candidly, in the current
18 virus environment I'm not sure how quickly they're flipping
19 around things like that so I, I hesitate to even give you an
20 estimate.
21 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Okay. Fair enough.
22 MAYOR DODD: All right. The answer to your
23 question, Vice Mayor Mauti, is, yes, that's what I'm saying.
24 If we file the appeal then we begin negotiations immediately
25 and we try to solve... we try to settle it with Pelican
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20
1 Island and Graves Brothers. If we can't settle it, we drop
2 the appeal. We use filing the appeal as an opportunity to
3 buy us the time to try and negotiate a settlement.
4 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Okay. All right. I would like
5 to hear what everybody else has to say.
6 MAYOR DODD: Okay. You going next?
7 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Sure. I don't see the
8 reason for the appeal listening to Attorney Abbott and all
9 that's happening. I don't... I see...
10 (Reading) Should there be any legal challenge
11 to annexation, the property whether based on
12 contingencies, enclaves or other theory, the owner
13 agrees to assume all risk associated with the
14 challenges. The owner further agrees to indemnify and
15 hold harmless the city.
16 I don't see a big threat here. I'd like to see
17 this rewritten and negotiated. And I don't know why we
18 can't do that out of court, quite frankly, instead of
19 prolonging all of this process. I would like to see Vice
20 Mayor Mauti have a meeting with Mr. Bass and make this
21 happen.
22 MAYOR DODD: I. I --
23 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: There's a lot wrong with
24 the PRM. There's no studies done. There's no traffic
25 studies or environmental studies. I mean, there's just
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1 things missing
21
2 MAYOR DODD: We can't, we can't do any of that
3 until we settle this and once we settle this then it's up to
4 Bass whether he wants to come back or not.
5 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: I believe he will but
6 that's my personal opinion. And why we have to take it
7 through court, I don't understand.
8 MAYOR DODD: All right. I'm not saying we're
9 going to take him to court. He's going --
10 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: No, I mean --
11 MAYOR DODD: I'm saying that he's... if we --
12 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: So can it be negotiated by
13 three parties out of court without doing the appeal? Can it
14 be done?
15 MAYOR DODD: No. (Shakes head.)
16 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Why?
17 MAYOR DODD: If we, if we don't do the appeal it's
18 over with.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: And then we start over.
20 MAYOR DODD: And -- Well, it's over with and then
21 we might start over. I'm not, I'm not --
22 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Okay. But we have the
23 opportunity --
24 MAYOR DODD: -- going to guarantee you we will
25 start over.
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1 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: -- or example or the vice
2 mayor to have a meeting with Mr. Brass at that point and
3 start over without this prolonged appeal process --
4 MAYOR DODD: Mr. Bass would have meetings with the
5 city staff if he chooses to come back.
6 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Right.
7 MAYOR DODD: Okay.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Okay.
9 MAYOR DODD: Yes.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Good. Well, that's my
11 piece.
12 MAYOR DODD: But if we choose not -- If we don't
13 appeal then it's over. And all has to happen now --
14 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: The legalities are over.
15 MAYOR DODD: -- before we go public with that is
16 that our city attorney has to draft a document that defines
17 what the impact on the city is and the cost, bring it up at
18 the city council and public meeting and we vote on it.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Yes.
20 MAYOR DODD: That's if we don't appeal.
21 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: I'm still against the
22 appeal. I don't see any progress with the appeal.
23 MAYOR DODD: Council Member Hill.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Yeah. I mean, I doubt we'd
25 win the appeal but I think that it makes sense to go forward
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23
1 with it so that we keep this thing in action. I mean, it's
2 a lie to say that you're in favor of the annexation, you're
3 in favor of the citizens of Sebastian controlling the future
4 of our community and say in the same statement that: But
5 the hell, we're just going to throw it out right now and
6 hope and pray that these people come back to the table.
7 Because that's exactly what was just said. It's asinine, in
8 fact. It's also ridiculous to think -- to say that, that
9 we're going to have to get sign -- have all of these
10 organizations check off and sign off on this, this
11 annexation agreement because many of those organizations
12 wouldn't sign off on it unless it was conservation forever
13 so that's just asinine. I'm not going to sit --
14 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: That's not true. And I
15 said your asinine statement, Mr. Hill --
16 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: I didn't interrupt you --
17 MAYOR DODD: Let him talk. Let him talk.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: I didn't interrupt you.
19 It's asinine, all right. It's asinine. You got a two-bit
20 con man sitting across the table from you and what you just
21 said is asinine so you can talk in a minute. But the fact
22 of the matter is that if you're forced --
23 MAYOR DODD: Dr. Hill, keep it, keep it nice.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: No problem. No problem. If
25 you want Sebastian to have control of its future then you
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24
1 allow Sebastian to have control of its future. If you want
2 to cower in the corner like a little baby and say that
3 because I said I'm going to do something during a
4 campaign --
5 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Is that, is that really --
6 MAYOR DODD: Jim, Jim, keep it, keep it nice.
7 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Civil.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: I'm just saying, man, this
9 is all, this is all BS, crap coming out of these people.
10 You guys have the facts in front of you, all right. The
11 easy thing to do is go forward with the appeal because it
12 doesn't cost us a damn thing and you would have known that
13 at the last meeting had you actually read the documents. So
14 the fact is, this isn't going to cost us anything to go
15 forward but it gives us time and it gives us the ability to
16 have control.
17 I don't, I don't -- You three, you do what you
18 think you want to do. But if you think that you're doing
19 justice to the citizens of Sebastian you are wrong because
20 Sebastian having control of that property and any property
21 surrounding us is important for our future. So I'm done
22 with that. I don't want to try to convince anyone
23 otherwise. Have a nice night everybody, yea, yea, ya, ya,
24 I'm finished
25 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: All right. Mr. Mayor, if I
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25
1 can, besides keeping it civil, just make sure that we
2 focus -- Hold on, sir. Just make sure that we're focused
3 on -- I'm sorry, who's talking?
4 (NO VERBAL RESPONSE.)
5 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Just make sure we're focused
6 on the issue.
7 MAYOR DODD: Yes.
8 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: All I want to bring to
9 your -- I'm not too concerned the vote, how it goes. I'm
10 just concerned along as council is aware of this clause,
11 make a decision.
12 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Right.
13 MAYOR DODD: You used the word "vote" because we
14 can't vote.
15 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I understand. But what I
16 meant is --
17 MAYOR DODD: I had to do that.
18 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I'm getting frustrated here.
19 What I meant to, sir, is that we just -- I just wanted you
20 guys to be crystal clear because it wasn't mentioned last
21 time and I feel a lot better knowing that you guys make an
22 informed decision and then we can go forward at that point.
23 That's all I cared about.
24 MAYOR DODD: And I fully appreciate you bringing
25 this forward I really do because I, I think it's an issue
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1 and so that's the reason that I laid out what I did. Are
2 you finished, Council Member Hill?
3 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Yes, sir. Thank you.
4 MAYOR DODD: Okay. Council Member Gilliams.
5 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
6 Mr. Abbott?
7 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, sir.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm going to need your
9 direct attention because I have a lot of questions I want to
10 ask you that's going to decide which way I'm going to go on
11 this vote -- not this vote, but where we're going to direct
12 this. First of all, you represent the City of Sebastian; is
13 that correct?
14 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, sir.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So let's say
16 hypothetically we decide to not proceed with the annexation
17 and Graves Brothers wants to proceed, will you be
18 representing Graves Brothers?
19 MR. ABBOTT: No, I would not be able to -- no,
20 sir. I think under those circumstances I would be
21 conflicted from representing another entity.
22 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. That would be a
23 conflict then, correct?
24 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, sir.
25 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay.
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27
1 MR. ABBOTT: I think so, yes, sir.
2 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. So I want to go
3 through this legal document and I have some questions as we
4 go along, okay?
5 MR. ABBOTT: Okay.
6 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Just before we start,
7 what is the standard of review by the Fourth DCA? What's
8 their standard?
9 MR. ABBOTT: If we were to further appeal the
10 decision?
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Correct. On the second
12 tier.
13 MR. ABBOTT: Whether, whether the lower court
14 afforded due process and followed the essential requirements
15 of law.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: And that's the standard.
17 What is that called?
18 MR. ABBOTT: That's the standard for second -tier
19 certiorari review.
20 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: And there's no name for
21 that?
22 MR. ABBOTT: Well, I think I'd... I think I would
23 call it the standard for certiorari review.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay.
25 MR. ABBOTT: You'll, you'll... if you have, if you
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W.
1 have the circuit court decision in front of you -- and I'm
2 not, I'm not sure that you do -- but you will see that the
3 very bottom of page 1 the circuit court announced the
4 standard for first -tier certiorari review, which is whether
5 procedural due process was afforded, whether the essential
6 requirements of law were observed, and whether the
7 administrative findings and judgment are supported by
8 competent, substantial evidence.
9 On second -tier certiorari, the third of those
10 things is not a subject to review. So the only thing that's
11 left are procedural due process and essential requirements
12 of law.
13 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Is that consider
14 passive?
15 MR. ABBOTT: I'm sorry, but --
16 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Is that considered
17 passive?
18 MR. ABBOTT: I, I still didn't catch your words,
19 my apologies.
20 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Is it passive?
21 MR. ABBOTT: Is it passive? I, I don't, I don't
22 understand the question.
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. Let, let me just
24 move on. In the annexation agreement, it says:
25 (Reading) Should there be any legal challenge
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1 to the annexation of the property whether based on
2 continually (sic) enclaves and other theory, the owner
3 agrees to assume all risk associated with the
4 challenge.
5 So--
6 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, sir.
COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: -- so assuming we decide
8 not to proceed and have you represent us anymore, we want to
9 hand it off to their attorneys, okay, let them go ahead and
10 pursue the... so that we don't have any litigation coming
11 back at us. What we're saying is: You guys can proceed,
12 we're not going to get in the way; we will help you with
13 whatever we need to do; what we would like to do is get our
14 monies in escrow that's already... as far as the bill that's
15 already owed -- which, I think, somewhere around 35,000 --
16 and then whatever's been awarded by the judges on the other
17 side so could be somewhere around $80,000. Does that sound
18 right?
19 MR. ABBOTT: I'm, I'm not in a position to verify
20 that it is --
21 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. Approximately.
22 I'm just saying, the question is: Can we ask Graves
23 Brothers to escrow that money now since we've lost the first
24 round here and put that money in escrow and let them... hand
25 it off to them and their attorneys in the system?
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30
1 MR. ABBOTT: Well, I mean, certainly nothing
2 prevents you from asking them. Here's the issues with
3 Graves Brothers furthering the appeal in their own name:
4 The problem is, they're currently not a party so they could
5 not file a petition as we speak. I think procedurally what
6 they would have to do is move to intervene --
7 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Correct.
8 MR. ABBOTT: -- in the circuit court action and
9 then if the intervention is granted then file a notice of
10 appeal. I think if they did all of that then under the
11 terms of the agreement they would still be responsible to
12 pay you for the cost that you have incurred up through the
13 circuit court level including the fee ward that will be
14 entered in favor of Pelican Island and against the city.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So, so by doing that and
16 allowing them to intervene on the circuit level, does that
17 release up any liability in this annexation agreement down
18 the road if -- Let's assume they lose again. They can, they
19 can appeal this to the Supreme Court, correct?
20 MR. ABBOTT: If theoretically, although third -tier
21 certiorari review is very, very rare, they certainly could
22 seek that sort of review, yes, sir.
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. So that opens us
24 up to more expenses. So, so as our attorney -- and I'm
25 asking you as our attorney -- would it be safe for us to
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31
1 request that they go ahead and enter... to, to get involved
2 at the circuit level, put the money in escrow that's already
3 owed because they owe it already and let them go on their
4 dime?
5 MR. ABBOTT: Well, in, in light of the direction
6 we received from the council at the last meeting, that's
7 essentially what I suggested that the city attorney do:
8 That, he notify Graves Brothers as soon as possible so that
9 they had the requisite time to intervene if they were so
10 inclined.
11 In terms of putting the money in escrow, I'd
12 probably asked for more than escrow. I think under the
13 terms of the agreement those funds will probably be owing.
14 But, sure, I mean, I think that you can certainly ask them
15 to put the fees they owe you in escrow and invite them to
16 continue the appeal in their own name. They, they, they
17 might suggest that given the current posture and given the
18 time limitations that it will be difficult for them to do it
19 and they might encourage the city to file the notice in
20 their own name.
21 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: All right. Let me, let
22 me proceed here because I want to make sure I covered all
23 the areas. It says that the owner agrees to assume all
24 risks associated with the challenge so it's obvious they're
25 going to assume all risk, correct?
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32
1 MR. ABBOTT: Yes. I think, I think that the
2 agreement is clear that certainly at the time all the
3 appeals are exhausted that Graves Brothers has to reimburse
4 the city for all of the cost it's incurred in the defense of
5 this action.
6 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: It also says that the
7 Graves, the owner Graves Brothers, further agrees to
8 indemnify and hold harmless the city from all claims, suits,
9 and judgments in any way arising out of or related to the
10 annexation of the property. So by this, going this route,
11 we'd be indemnify, correct.
12 MR. ABBOTT: Right. You are indemnified by Graves
13 Brothers for the claims made against the city by Pelican
14 Island and that's why Graves Brothers in addition to having
15 to reimburse you for the fees you paid me, for instance,
16 will also have to reimburse you for the fees that the Court
17 will order the city to pay to Pelican Island.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. So it goes on:
19 (Reading) This indemnity and hold harmless
20 shall extend to all cost, fees, expenses included but
21 not limited to, to reasonable attorney fees and expert
22 witnesses, fees incurred by the city in the
23 investigation of or defense of any challenge to the
24 annexation whatsoever including but not limited to
25 Chapter 164.
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33
1 Do you want to elaborate on Chapter 164? Is that
2 something we need to be aware of?
3 MAYOR DODD: We're not -- No --
4 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Excuse me. Can he
5 answer the question, please.
6 MAYOR DODD: Let's keep within the target. The
7 target is, the target is appealing this --
8 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: He's our attorney. I'm
9 asking him how that --
10 MAYOR DODD: Damien, stay on the target, please.
11 MR. ABBOTT: Shall I answer, Mr. Mayor?
12 MAYOR DODD: No.
13 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I want to appeal that.
14 I want to appeal your --
15 MAYOR DODD: Here's what -- here's, here's my
16 response to you, here's my response to you: We are
17 discussing in an executive client session; under the law, we
18 can only talk about what this session was set up for and the
19 session was set up for appealing this case.
20 And it specifically says in the request for the
21 meeting that we're here to discuss this particular place,
22 the Pelican Island Society, Graham Cox, Donna Halleran and
23 City of Sebastian. That was specifically set. We're here
24 to discuss that. There is nothing outside of that that we
25 can talk about here without being in violation of the
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34
1 Sunshine Law. And if you'd like to be in violation of the
2 Sunshine Law again, just go right ahead and talk.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So I'd like to go ahead
4 and have the attorney answer that. I want to appeal your
5 decision to the board here and, and see if the board --
6 MAYOR DODD: There is no appeal of that. Ask the
7 city attorney. You're in violation if you go beyond this
8 case.
9 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: May I ask, is this
10 directly related to the case?
11 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: It's not directly related to
12 the case.
13 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, it says
14 investigation, defense, any challenge to the annexation
15 whatsoever including but not limited to Chapter 164.
16 MAYOR DODD: It doesn't matter what that agreement
17 says. We're here to discuss --
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I want the attorney --
19 You're not an attorney. I would like him to weigh in. This
20 is an executive session.
21 MAYOR DODD: I am, I am, I am interjecting in
22 this. We are discussing only the Pelican Island, Graham
23 Cox, Peterson -- Is that the right name?
24 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Et al.
25 MAYOR DODD: -- case -- Halleran, Halleran case.
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35
1 That's all we're discussing.
2 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm appealing --
3 MAYOR DODD: There's no appeal, Damien.
4 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: You said violate
5 procedural --
6 MAYOR DODD: You're in violation of the Sunshine
7 Law if you talk about anything else.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So you're an attorney
9 now. You're denying me my right to appeal to the board.
10 MAYOR DODD: Well, I'm, I'm as much as an attorney
11 as you are.
12 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Let the record reflect
13 that he's denying my right to appeal to the board under the
14 civil rights violation, the federal law, and that I have a
15 right to appeal that.
16 MAYOR DODD: You do not have a right in this
17 meeting to discuss anything outside --
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: You, you don't have the
19 final say. You're not an attorney, sir. We have an
20 attorney that we pay for. I would like to get his opinion.
21 You're denying me that right.
22 MAYOR DODD: I'm, I'm telling you right now, he
23 cannot answer that question and you cannot ask it.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. Let me move on.
25 I guess, obviously -- do you have any thoughts on that,
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1 Charles?
M
2 MAYOR DODD: No. Do you have any thoughts on
3 anything else, Mr. Gilliams, or are you finished?
4 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. I can talk to
5 him.
6 MAYOR DODD: No, you can't.
7 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I can't talk to Charles?
8 MAYOR DODD: Finish your discussion and then he
9 can talk.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I may have a question
11 for him. This is my time.
12 MAYOR DODD: Well, ask him a direct question.
13 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: If you have a different
14 question, ask it.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Would you consider an
16 appeal?
17 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Would I consider appeal?
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: On what he just decided
19 on, that, we can't have an attorney answer our question on.
20 MAYOR DODD: Okay. Vice Mayor Mauti, are we here
21 to discuss -- What are we here to discuss?
22 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: We are here to discuss whether
23 we'll appeal this or not.
24 MAYOR DODD: Which case?
25 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: This case that we're discussing
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37
1 right now.
2 MAYOR DODD: Okay. And, and your question to him
3 is outside the bounds of that case and it would be a
4 violation of the Sunshine Law.
5 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: There's three votes
6 here. If we can get a consensus for Dan to answer that
7 question, he'd like to answer that question. Why do you get
8 to rule the majority?
9 MAYOR DODD: I get to rule because I'm running the
10 meeting.
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yeah. But we can, we
12 can appeal your decision.
13 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Just a minute. Just a minute.
14 Can we have our attorney answer that question.
15 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: All I'm saying is that I
16 don't... to be fair, I don't want to put Dan Abbott in that
17 situation. I'm sure Dan would try to answer to the best of
18 his ability. I still believe we have to stay within the
19 law.
20 I believe asking a question that's not
21 specifically addressed, which I prefaced earlier by saying
22 what my concerns were: We cooperate fully in connection
23 with the defense, that's it. If that phrase is okay with
24 everything then boast your heart away. I have no dog in
25 this fight right now other than advising you guys of that
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1 stuff. I don't think we should get off -- I think getting
2 off into 164, what you do, I think, will violate the
3 Sunshine Law in my opinion. Dan might disagree but that's
4 my opinion.
5 MAYOR DODD: Well, that's --
6 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, let's ask Dan.
7 MAYOR DODD: -- you're our city attorney --
8 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: If he says it's gonna --
9 it's a violation we'll move on.
10 MAYOR DODD: Damien --
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Why won't you let him
12 answer the question? If he says, Don't go there, Damien,
13 I'll respect him.
14 MAYOR DODD: You are stepping into a Sunshine Law
15 violation right now.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm, I'm asking him if
17 he can --
18 MAYOR DODD: Mr. Airens (Phonetic) is around the
19 building someplace. Do you want me to go get him?
20 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: He's not going to
21 violate the Sunshine Law. He's going to say yes or no.
22 Dan?
23 MAYOR DODD: No, you cannot answer any questions
24 related to 164 process. You can ask any questions,
25 Mr. Gilliams, you want related to the Pelican Island Audubon
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1 Society, Graham Cox, Dianne (sic) Halleran v. City of
2 Sebastian.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'll move on. Charles,
4 if you say no I'll move on.
5 MAYOR DODD: You can't say no and you don't
6 control that.
7 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Pretty simple, no.
8 MAYOR DODD: Mr. Hill, do you agree with me?
9 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: He already said no.
10 MAYOR DODD: I'll ask him. Mr. Hill, do you agree
11 with me?
12 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: All right. Let's move
13 on.
14 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: He already said no.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Wait a minute.
16 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Just move on.
17 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. Let's move on.
18 All right. Let's go. Chapter 164, Chapter 170:
19 (Reading) Any legal challenge filed in Court
20 including all levels of the court and any attorney fees
21 that the city may be ordered to pay pursuant to Section
22 171.081 Florida Statutes, a third -party claim:
23 Promptly after receiving notice or making the
24 commencement by any third -party then claim action
25 lawsuit proceed in which to indemnify may be sought.
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we
1 The third -party claim: The city shall notify the
2 owner, failure to do so shall not relieve the owner
3 from any liability.
4 Obviously, we notified... we, we notified
5 right? Correct, Manny?
6 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I'm sorry --
7 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: The third -party?
8 MAYOR DODD: Did you notify the Graves Brothers?
9 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: About what? Our decision?
10 MAYOR DODD: Our decision the last time -- the
11 last meeting.
12 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: No, I have not notified them
13 based on the e-mail that Mr. Abbott and I had that
14 conversation. That's why I'm having this, this meeting with
15 you guys to then ultimately somehow couch an e-mail to them
16 that we both feel doesn't violate the Sunshine Law.
17 MAYOR DODD: Okay.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, the -- Well, let
19 me ask you this, Mr. Abbott: Will the owner be prejudiced
20 by lack of such notice and are we talking the right notice
21 here? If you're looking at page 18, if you look --
22 MR. ABBOTT: Councilmen, the way I read this
23 notice is this sentence was triggered when we were initially
24 served with the lawsuit by Pelican Audubon. I, I don't read
25 this sentence as we had to renotify the owner of our
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1 intentions after the circuit court rendered its decision so
2 I'm confident that the city is complied with this sentence.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. Okay.
4 (Reading) Lack of notice provided such that
5 the case law shall not be responsible for that portion
6 of liability caused by the prejudice resulting from the
7 lack of notice.
8 Okay. As long as the city is cleared from the,
9 you know, that Graves Brothers doesn't come back on us for
10 lack of notice I'm okay with it. And you said that all the
11 notices have been done properly.
12 (Reading) If any third, such third -party
13 claims is brought against the city, owner shall be
14 entitled to participate.
15 So that's where Graves Brothers, where you
16 mentioned, they can intervene at the circuit level and they
17 can participate, correct?
18 MR. ABBOTT: They were notified of the, of the
19 lawsuit by Pelican Island. They knew that they were allowed
20 to participate and they consented to the city defending this
21 action and the use of my law firm, yes, sir.
22 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: And we have that in
23 writing, right?
24 MR. ABBOTT: You know, I. I remember the meeting.
25 I believe that I got a follow-up confirmation from the
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1 Graves' attorney but I don't have that in front of me. I
2 believe the answer is, yes, but I'm not 100 percent.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. So now that they
4 lost on the... on the complaint and they want to take it to
5 the next level, they're entitled to participate, correct?
6 MR. ABBOTT: Well, under the agreement they're
7 allowed to participate. Under the law they would need to
8 become a party to the litigation in order to... in order to
9 appeal.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So we'll go ahead, the
11 city, if we, we go ahead and say, Okay, we're going to let
12 you participate, you can go ahead and intervene and then you
13 can participate and take... you can go ahead and appeal this
14 to the Fourth DCA on your dime and that's after the city,
15 the city's receiving... properly to the city after receiving
16 notice from the city to assume the defense so we'll have to
17 notice them to let them know they need to assume the
18 defense, correct?
19 MR. ABBOTT: Well, again, I'm not, I'm not sure
20 that that's what this sentence means. I think this sentence
21 was from the initial process. But, but I think I agree with
22 what you're suggesting strategically, councilman, and that's
23 why I suggested that if the city does not intend to appeal
24 we should let Graves Brothers know because then amongst the
25 city's defense, should Graves Brothers pursue an action
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1 against the city, would be: You could have pursued the
2 appeal in your own name and chose not to.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, that's what I'm
4 trying to avoid. I want to make sure that Graves Brothers
5 doesn't pursue an action against the city. We want them to
6 participate and assume the defense.
7 MR. ABBOTT: Well, it is, it is true that Graves
8 Brothers had the right to participate below and that they
9 chose to allow the city's attorneys to defend the case. The
10 concern is if the city has a right to further challenge the
11 decision that Graves Brothers might contend that the city
12 didn't agree, didn't cooperate with Graves Brothers in terms
13 of further challenging the circuit court decision.
14 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yeah. And I don't wanna
15 get in that Catch-22. I want to make sure that we allowed
16 them to participate and assist in their defense, not that we
17 have any exposure, you follow me?
18 MR. ABBOTT: I do. And so if the city does not
19 intend to appeal, I can think of no downside to letting
20 Graves Brothers know that as soon as possible so that Graves
21 Brothers can exercise any right they may have in terms of
22 challenging the, the panel decision.
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Do we have to come right
24 out and say we don't want to appeal or can we come out and
25 invite them to take on the defense? And would you take on
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1 that defense and would be that a conflict of interest for
2 the city?
3 MR. ABBOTT: Well, if, if the, if the city were to
4 appeal I think we've already gotten the agreement from
5 Graves that they agreed to my firm doing that appeal. If
6 you wanted somebody else to do it, I think we would need
7 their agreement.
8 But I think at this point if you're to tell
9 Graves, you know, you're entitled to participate and do
10 whatever you want, they're going to, they're going to just
11 say: What do you mean? Is the city going to appeal or not?
12 And I'm really not sure that we can avoid not telling them.
13 I mean, I would say that if we don't intend to appeal I
14 could see no downside to telling Graves that and perhaps
15 even reminding them that perhaps they have rights to pursue
16 the appeal in their own name.
17 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. And we will
18 assist them. I mean, you know, we want them to pick it up,
19 up from this point on, on their dime. So I'm not saying
20 that we're against not appealing it and I'm not saying we're
21 for the appeal. What I'm saying is, Let them assume the
22 defense.
23 Now, I don't know, I think it might be a conflict
24 if they hired you to continue with the defense. They may
25 want to get their own attorney because there's three of us
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1 here at the last meeting that indicated, you know, we're
2 against the appeal so I, I see a conflict right there. You
3 agree?
4 MR. ABBOTT: Certainly I can never and would never
5 take a position adverse to the city. And if the city's
6 direction is they don't want an appeal to be filed, I could
7 not file an appeal. I, I agree with that. That would be
8 contrary to the interest of my client.
9 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So your job is to keep
10 us out of any legal exposure to the Graves Brothers so I'm
11 going to ask for you to help me write this motion. How
12 would you write this motion so down... the three of us or
13 the five of us can look at this and feel comfortable, Hey,
14 we would like you to put the money in escrow that you've
15 already occurred -- accrued for, for both parties. And I
16 can just say an approximate whatever is not, you know, they
17 get back and put in an interest bearing account, 70- to
18 $80,000, give or take, and then, and then welcome them to
19 intervene and pick it up at their dime and we will assist
20 them in any way we --
21 MAYOR DODD: Damien. Damien, hold it. Now you're
22 getting off the subject --
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm in the middle of a
24 thought here.
25 MAYOR DODD: Manny, Manny has to say something.
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1 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: No. I am in the middle
2 of a thought here. I -- No. He can wait.
3 MAYOR DODD: This is his meeting. He can say
4 something. Go ahead.
5 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Go ahead, council member,
6 just finish your thoughts.
7 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Thank you. So if you
8 were to prepare a motion --
9 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I'm going to object on this --
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: -- to keep us so that we
11 don't have any exposure but, yet, Graves Brothers can assume
12 the defense, they can get their own attorney to pursue it
13 because I think you need to remain on our side because you
14 represent us from -- I think they could be a conflict later
15 on.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Uh-huh.
17 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: How would you, how would
18 you prepare that motion?
19 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Hold on. Now let me
20 interject. Hold on, Dan.
21 MAYOR DODD: Dan.
22 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: It's not a motion. It will
23 be a letter --
24 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay.
25 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- that the attorney -- This
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1 is where Dan and I left off last week. This is why we're
2 having this meeting. I would, again, prefer that we go back
3 to the issue at hand. If you guys decide to continue your
4 same thoughts then, Council Member Gilliams, then you guys
5 can get a feel from you guys what you guys want us to do at
6 that point which we will at that point.
7 Right now, the question is, again, as long as
8 you're aware of this sentence and you're okay with the
9 sentence you don't want to appeal, you do want to appeal,
10 let us know; and then, the secondary issue would be
11 instructing us to go forward and notifying Graves, which the
12 conversation I had with Dan the other day was: How can we
13 couch that if this is supposed to be an attorney -client
14 session meeting Graves and their attorneys cannot be a part
15 of this meeting so they cannot know what we're talking about
16 so this is going to be really kind of interesting how we
17 couch this letter.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. Well --
19 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Well, that will be up to the
20 lawyers. So let's decide Issue A and once you guys decide
21 Issue A either "A" or "B," however you want, and then I
22 would ask you guys for a little bit further direction like
23 Council Member Gilliams was instructing. But I would just
24 prefer at this point just to make sure we're all fully
25 apprised of all the facts in this agreement, make an
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1 informed decision, and then where we go next we can make --
2 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: All right. So let, let
3 me finish. So, Mr. Dan, so it says:
4 (Reading) The owner...
5 Which is Graves.
6 (Reading) ... shall be entitled to
7 participate to the extent they may elect by written
8 notice delivered properly by the city after receiving
9 notice from the city to assume the defense with counsel
10 or their own counsel reasonably satisfactory to the
11 city.
12 And you'll be representing us so it could have to
13 be reasonable to you. They'd have to use their own lawyers.
14 And then: (Reading) The parties agree to
15 cooperate fully in connection with the defense...
16 Which I'm willing to do. I don't want to leave
17 the taxpayers of this community upon to any exposure that
18 the Graves Brothers say that we did not fully cooperate.
19 (Reading) ... on the defense negotiations or
20 settlement of any legal proceeding, claim or demand.
21 The city shall have the right to employ counsel in any
22 such case...
23 Which we did.
24 (Reading) ... with counsel reasonably
25 accepted to the owner and the fees and expenses of this
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1 council shall be at the expense of the city subject to
2 reimbursement...
3 Which, that's the... there's no reason why they
4 shouldn't put that money in escrow because we're entitled to
5 reimbursement. We defended this, this suit from the get -go.
6 (Reading) ... in any of these events, fees
7 and expenses of the city council, I mean, for the
8 city... the city's counsel shall be borne by the
9 owner...
10 Which is Graves.
11 (Reading) ... owner may not settle any
12 third -party claim without the consent of the city. And
13 after any final judgment award has been rendered by the
14 Court, arbitration board, administrative judicial
15 competent jurisdiction and at time in which to appeal
16 permit has expired the settlement has be consummated or
17 owner and the city arrive at a mutual binding agreement
18 with respect to each separate matter alleged to be
19 indemnified by the owner, city shall forward to the
20 owner notice of any sums due...
21 Which I would like to do now: Money that's
22 already due. And, and this way, if they fail at the Fourth
23 DCA and they want to go ahead and take it to the Supreme
24 Court, which they're entitled to do, they can do it, all of
25 this, on their own dime. And we will cooperate and we will,
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1 we will do whatever we have to do according to this
2 agreement so that the city and taxpayers are not exposed to
3 any legal challenge by the Graves Brothers at a later date.
4 That's how I feel.
5 MAYOR DODD: Are you done?
6 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: No. Is that possible?
7 MR. ABBOTT: Well, I'm not sure that there's
8 anything that you can do that would eliminate the
9 possibility that, that, that Graves is going to try to
10 pursue an action against the city.
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm aware of that.
12 MR. ABBOTT: I mean --
13 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm aware of that.
14 MR. ABBOTT: But, but, but if you want -- if you
15 don't want to appeal and you want to limit your exposure and
16 you want to get paid, I think most of what you would need to
17 do is the direction we received at the last meeting. I
18 think that most of what follows is administrative.
19 So when the council gave us direction that you
20 didn't want to appeal, my thoughts were we should, first of
21 all, let Graves know. I don't know that we need to, to cite
22 all of the provisions of the agreement that gives them the,
23 the option. They know they have the option. We can list
24 those things if you want. But the reason is to just tell
25 them and so that they can try, they're so inclined, to file
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1 an appeal in their own name.
2 In terms of getting paid, you can ask that the
3 money be put in escrow but really the triggering provision
4 in this agreement is when all of the appeals are over. So
5 Graves -- if the city doesn't appeal and Graves doesn't find
6 a way to appeal within the next eight days, which is the
7 deadline, then I don't think anyone is going to put money in
8 escrow they should, they should pay you. We should send
9 them a bill and they should pay you.
10 If they do appeal -- if the city appeals or if
11 Graves Brothers finds a way to appeal, I don't know that
12 these... the monies from... are owing currently under the
13 terms of agreement because the appeal is pending. That
14 doesn't prevent you from asking them to put the money
15 escrow. I'm just saying that the agreement doesn't seem to
16 require it until the appeals are concluded.
17 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, nobody --
18 MR. ABBOTT: I hope that answered your question.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, yeah. Nobody
20 anticipated that it would be going to the Fourth DCA, maybe
21 going to the Supreme Court so that's why I feel more
22 comfortable, you know, there's no -- I'm not sure how this
23 property is taken into title. Think of about $200,000 in
24 legal fees and file bankrupt, bankruptcy. How do we get our
25 money? We don't. So they're, if they're legit and they
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1 want to pursue this and we're willing to help them, I don't
2 see why they wouldn't put that money in escrow.
3 Here's the other question: If the Graves Brothers
4 were to sue the city under this annexation agreement, what
5 clause would they sue us under, under those terms that I
6 just put out to you: Let them assume the defense?
7 MR. ABBOTT: Well, if they were to sue you based
8 on the annexation agreement, I think they would file a
9 breach of contract action and I think that they would allege
10 violation of the sentence that the city attorney read to you
11 at the outset of the session --
12 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Can you repeat that.
13 MR. ABBOTT: -- the parties were -- Excuse me?
14 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Can you repeat that
15 sentence.
16 MR. ABBOTT: Yes, sir. It says: The parties
17 agree to cooperate fully in connection with the defense. So
18 I, so I think that they will allege there were further
19 defenses available because we had an opportunity to further
20 appeal the panel decision, we didn't cooperate with them
21 because they wanted to appeal and we didn't and they'll
22 allege breach of the agreement.
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, that's why --
24 MR. ABBOTT: Now, there are a lot of potential
25 defenses to that action. First of all, I think they would
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1 have to prove that we would have won the appeal. Second of
2 all, I think they would have to argue that if we won the
3 appeal and they weren't annexed into the city, they would
4 have made money that was lost and I think in connection to
5 that they would have to allege some sort of commitment on
6 the city to change zoning and land use on the parcel which
7 the annexation agreement in my opinion does not require.
8 So I don't think they've got a great cause of
9 action against you, councilman, but, but I will say this:
10 In local government, some of scariest lawsuits that can be
11 filed against you are land use related decisions because,
12 because there's not sovereign immunity limits. I mean, some
13 of biggest dollar claims you'll see against governments are
14 land use related decisions where people who own property
15 contend that they want to do something with the property and
16 the government kept them from making a whole bunch of money.
17 So I don't think Graves Brothers has a great
18 chance of a lawsuit against you. I think that some of
19 things I suggested in my e-mail to the city attorney would
20 limit even that remote chance of exposure and but, but you
21 can really get no promises that no one is going to sue you
22 because anyone can sue you if they can pay a filing fee.
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, the most important
24 thing to me is to make sure you can assign this defense
25 properly to the Graves Brothers where they don't come back
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1 and there's any open exposure. And I'm willing to allow
2 them to, and cooperate with them, if he wanna appeal it then
3 we'll sign on and we'll appeal with them, you know, to the
4 extent that we'll... we have our own lawyers, you had --
5 they'll have their own lawyers, they put that money in
6 escrow, and they can proceed and knock themselves out. And
7 that's, that's my thought on the, on the whole issue. So I
8 may have another question or so later so I just want to
9 revert -- reserve a little time, Mr. Mayor.
10 MAYOR DODD: Charles.
11 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I have no further questions at
12 this time.
13 MAYOR DODD: Okay. I'm going to say this just as
14 straightforwardly as I can: The only difference between
15 what you said and what I said is that we appeal, and my
16 statement Graves Brothers appeals in theirs. You cannot
17 force them to do what you're laying out to do.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Not forcing them --
19 MAYOR DODD: You can't force them to put money in
20 escrow. You can't force them to take over this. You can't
21 execute that. You can't make them agree to what you're
22 trying to get them to agree to.
23 The only difference between what I proposed, which
24 is we file the appeal, we begin the negotiations, if they
25 choose during the negotiations to pick up on it, that's
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1 fine. The only difference between the two is you want to be
2 adverse to saying the city is appealing this because of your
3 political issues. That's what you want. I'm, I'm not
4 adverse to that, that's the only difference.
5 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yeah.
6 MAYOR DODD: The Graves Brothers, if we file the
7 appeal, if the lawyer goes through the appeal process
8 starting tomorrow, the Graves Brothers is responsible for
9 reimbursing us for all of that cost, period.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So they say we did
11 something wrong.
12 MAYOR DODD: The only difference between what you
13 and I -- what you're saying and what I'm saying is: You're
14 trying to go around about way and you're trying to say that
15 you can force the Graves Brothers to come in, that you can
16 tell them you're going to fully cooperate, you can tell them
17 this stuff and that they'll do what you want to do. What
18 I'm saying is, Well, I can't guarantee that; I don't want to
19 guarantee that.
20 The way to stop the liability issues for the City
21 of Sebastian is for us to file the appeal and then begin the
22 negotiations. That's the way to stop the liability issues
23 for the City of Sebastian. You can't guarantee this.
24 What Mr. Abbott said a few minutes ago about the
25 reimbursement was at the time all appeals are finalized.
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1 That's what he said: At the time all appeals are finalized.
2 What that means is, if we walk away from this appeal all
3 appeals haven't been finalized. Whatever Graves Brothers
4 decides to do, they decide to do. I can't control that.
5 You can't control that. You can't make them cooperate. You
6 can't make them take their lawyers. You can't make them
7 file the appeal, period. The only way to stop the liability
8 potential for the city --
9 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: You're repeating
10 yourself.
11 MAYOR DODD: -- is for the city to appeal it and
12 then for us to begin negotiations, period. That's the only
13 way to do that. We can -- And the negotiations that we
14 begin will -- is just the beginning of the process to get
15 through it. That's the only way to do that. Now, Charles,
16 do you have anything to say?
17 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: No. I'm just listening right
18 now.
19 MAYOR DODD: Does anybody else have anything to
20 say?
21 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Nothing.
22 MAYOR DODD: All right. It's past our one hour.
23 What I would like to do is get a straw vote. I know it
24 can't be a vote. Let's just get an opinion.
25 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Well, yeah, go around and --
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1 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: All right. Well,
2 Mr. Mayor, what I would like to do is instruct the city,
3 Attorney Dan Abbott, to proceed with the notice to the
4 Graves Brothers to put additional, "X" amount of dollars in
5 escrow --
6 MAYOR DODD: Okay --
7 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: -- and we will
8 cooperate, let them intervene -- Excuse me. Let me finish.
9 MAYOR DODD: Are you saying we should not appea
10 this?
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That's not what I'm
12 saying. Listen to me.
13 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Oh, you have a question?
14 Are you
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I have an attorney, Dan
16 Abbott, is my attorney and I'll ask the attorney.
17 MAYOR DODD: No. Manny Anon is your attorney.
18 Dan Abbott works for Manny.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yeah. And Manny works
20 for us.
21 MAYOR DODD: Okay. So --
22 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: But again, again, I want
23 to put it out on the table that we will cooperate. We don't
24 want to appeal this personally. Let them assume the defense
25 and put the money in escrow.
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1 MAYOR DODD: So your, your, your response is that
2 we don't appeal --
3 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Time out. Time out,
4 gentleman. Really quick. So let's just take it one step at
5 a time. All we need to address: Whether you want to appeal
6 and then we'll address if the answer is no, I do agree with
7 that second position. Because I want clear clarity of where
8 we are going with that. That's it.
9 MAYOR DODD: Okay. So now --
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: It answers itself. It
11 answered -- Allowing them to assume the defense --
12 MAYOR DODD: Okay. So what I'm saying, what I'm
13 saying is
14 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: We're saying we're going
15 to go with the appeal, we are going to assist them, but
16 they're going to do it on their dime.
17 MAYOR DODD: You can't force that, Damien.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm going to ask him.
19 Of course, I'm going to ask him --
20 MAYOR DODD: You're blowing smoke screens and
21 wassails. Here's the question, guys: Do we appeal it or
22 not through the city?
23 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Under certain
24 circumstances, yes.
25 MAYOR DODD: Your answer is yes or no?
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1 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Under circumstances.
2 MAYOR DODD: Well, do we appeal it --
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: No, then I'm not
4 gonna
5 MAYOR DODD: -- does the city --
6 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Then, I'm going to say,
7 no, we're not going to appeal it.
8 MAYOR DODD: Does the city appeal this? Your
9 answer is, no.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: No, that's not -- no,
11 that's not --
12 MAYOR DODD: Mr. Hill, your answer?
13 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: You cannot -- you don't
14 have the right to tell me how to set it out. I'm telling
15 you my stipulations.
16 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Damien, it's a simple yes or no
17 vote.
18 MAYOR DODD: Damien, it's a simple yes or no --
19 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: But wait a minute.
20 They're going to go ahead, Charles, and they're going to sue
21 appealing this and there's no stipulations.
22 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: No, that's not true, sir.
23 What we're trying to, first, was make a decision --
24 MAYOR DODD: First decision is: Does the city
25 appeal it or not.
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: As long as we make a decision
2 then we can go
3 MAYOR DODD: Your answer is no. Mr. Hill, your
4 answer?
5 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Then, we can go what,
6 Manny?
7 MAYOR DODD: Your answer is yet -- Excuse me.
8 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait --
9 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: My answer is, yes,
10 subject to.
11 MAYOR DODD: No.
12 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: No.
13 MAYOR DODD: Okay. You can't be a yes -subject -to.
14 This is --
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yes, I can.
16 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Time out, gentleman. We've
17 got only one at a time for the court reporter's sake because
18 we're just talking over each other.
19 MAYOR DODD: Okay.
20 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- so just we've got a real
21 live reporter.
22 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: I'm a hard yes.
23 MAYOR DODD: I'm sorry?
24 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Hard yes.
25 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Damien's a hard yes. I'm a
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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1 hard yes.
2 MAYOR DODD: You're a hard yes. So Council Member
3 Hill votes, yes, the city does the appeal.
4 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: We're not voting, sir.
5 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I'm not here --
6 MAYOR DODD: Okay. Council Member Hill says yes
7 to the city doing the appeal.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: You got that right.
9 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I'm hearing what he said.
10 MAYOR DODD: Okay. Council Member Parris?
11 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: It's a hard yes --
12 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm going with Graves
13 Brothers doing the appeal, yes.
14 MAYOR DODD: You're voting no to the city doing
15 the appeal then?
16 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Correct.
17 MAYOR DODD: Okay. That's fine. That's all I
18 wanted. Council Member Parris.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: I don't see anything for
20 us going. I think Graves Brothers will be reasonable so I'm
21 going to vote, no, too.
22 MAYOR DODD: I'm sorry?
23 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: No to the appeal.
24 MAYOR DODD: No to the appeal. Vice Mayor Mauti?
25 I'm saying yes.
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1 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I'm going to have to go with no
2 on the appeal.
3 MAYOR DODD: Okay. So the city's not appealing
4 it.
5 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Now --
6 MAYOR DODD: Now, Manny, you have questions?
7 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Yes, I do. Now, the
8 follow-up question... now you can ask your follow-up
9 question, it's legitimate... since we're not going to do
10 this, the next question is to the attorney that -- And,
11 Mr. Abbott, I will talk about this thing because we need to
12 know now how we're going to couch this letter you're talking
13 about to them.
14 I don't agree with them putting things in escrow
15 right now because I think we should wait until the end of
16 the 30 days when everything expires we send that major
17 letter with all the bills. However, in the interim, what is
18 the direction that council wants us to do to let them
19 know -- we do have to let them know per Mr. Abbott
20 somehow -- so that's direction to somehow notify them --
21 MAYOR DODD: Okay. I think, I think it's
22 appropriate. The two attorneys know what the agreement
23 says, what their options are. You can provide those options
24 because one option is that they pick up the defense of the
25 thing; one option is they walk away.
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I understand that. I
2 understand that.
3 MAYOR DODD: I think you two guys are smart enough
4 to do that.
5 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I understand that. I know
6 Mr. Abbott and I -- I would be more than glad to talk to you
7 tomorrow, Dan, about this so we can get some kind of
8 letter --
9 MAYOR DODD: Now --
10 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Hold on, sir, with all due
11 respect. -- some kind of letter immediately out to these
12 individuals either tonight or first thing tomorrow
13 morning --
14 MAYOR DODD: Because sometime at, sometime at a
15 public meeting in the future, hopefully sooner than later
16 because this will get out. The last meeting we had, the
17 last, the last attorney -client session we had got out.
18 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Okay --
19 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Okay. Hold on, gentlemen --
20 MAYOR DODD: So this, this is going, this is going
21 to get out so sooner or later, please, come back to the
22 council in a open session with this information so we can
23 approve.
24 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: We will at --
25 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Charles had a question.
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- the collusion of the 30
2 days -- Hold on. Let me answer his question, if I can. At
3 the conclusion of the 30 days if there is no appeal then we
4 will -- this is all at that point become public --
5 MAYOR DODD: But you've got to come up with a
6 settlement.
7 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Yeah.
8 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I understand, sir. The
9 interim -- No. No. That's later after the 30 days. The
to interim, the feel I'm getting from everyone here -- or the
11 majority, at least -- my feel is to send them a letter ASAP,
12 meaning, Hey -- I'm not sure how we're going to couch this,
13 Dan -- but, Hey, somehow, you know, we might not be going
14 forward, you guys might want to jump in if you want to jump
15 in. That way they are not... they don't have the argument
16 of that they are being prejudiced. Is that fair to say,
17 Abbott -- Dan?
18 MR. ABBOTT: I'm very sorry, Manny, my Zoom
19 connection cut out and so I have lost where we are: That we
20 have received the consensus --
21 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Yes. Yes.
22 MR. ABBOTT: -- and hoping somebody described it
23 to me?
24 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Yes. I think the
25 consensus -- I will suggest two things I've heard going
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1 around the table: One --
2 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Before we do that --
3 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- you're not -- Hold on.
4 Let me finish my thought, sir.
5 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Please.
6 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: All right. Well --
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I think the consensus is it
8 hasn't change from last time, which is okay. I'm fine with
9 that. Now, I feel a lot better that we're all up to date
10 with this agreement. Now you and I, we need to sit together
11 maybe even tonight, if possible -- I don't know, I have
12 meetings after this -- but as soon as possible to somehow
13 couch this, a letter, to Graves in two aspects: How, how
14 they can, if they want to, go forward without, without
15 violating the Sunshine Law, that's No. 1; No. 2, I would
16 also like from you to cover us since you have being
17 representing us our... your position legally -- I think we
18 discussed it already -- as to your opinion as to whether or
19 not we would have even prevailed at this Fourth Circuit
20 appeal because that might cover us from a defense point of
21 view if down the road we got the legal advice that, Hey, we
22 did everything we can even having gone forward the
23 likelihood of prevailing would have been nil.
24 So I would like -- I think I got that census as
25 well that the opinion coming from you in case that is to
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Mee
1 come down, down the road, down the pipe. But the most
2 immediate thing we need to do tomorrow morning, and you can
3 start couching something which is compliant with the law, is
4 somehow this letter to Graves. And I think that was the
5 consensus I heard. Anything else, I think Mr. Council
6 Member Damien had a question --
7 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: No. No. No. I wanted
8 to get a consensus on Charles: Do we want to escrow any
9 money?
10 MAYOR DODD: We're not -- That's up to these
11 guys --
12 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: What's your feeling on
13 it --
14 MAYOR DODD: Damien --
15 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Sir --
16 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: At this time I do not believe
17 that's appropriate and --
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Okay. That's fine.
19 That's fine. Then, we don't need to go there. But we will
20 cooperate with the Graves Brothers --
21 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Assuming they want to go
22 forward. So I'll get ahold of you. We will say we will
23 start in 15 minutes, right, sir?
24 MAYOR DODD: We will start downstairs at -- What
25 time is it right now?
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: It's --
2 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: 6:20.
3 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: 6:15, 6:20.
4 MAYOR DODD: Well, I've got 6:18.
5 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Sir, do you ever Graves'
6 information with you? I do not.
7 MAYOR DODD: We're going to start at 6:30 now --
8 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: We have it.
9 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: You have it?
10 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: I need a rest break.
11 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So we're going to assign
12 the case to them.
13 MAYOR DODD: We're going to start -- We cannot
14 assign the case to them.
15 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: Hold on. One at a time,
16 please.
17 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Let me speak now. We're
18 going to somehow --
19 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: We haven't adjourned yet.
20 One at a time.
21 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: We're going to somehow couch
22 a letter within the law -- we are in a executive session --
23 within the law and we're going to be disclosing to them
24 information that we're discussing here to make them aware so
25 that we don't have to wait until Day 30, you know, and then
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1 they're out of luck at that point in time.
2 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Would you have let them
3 know we're assigning the case to them in that letter?
4 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: We're not assigning. We're
5 letting them know kind of --
6 MAYOR DODD: We're not assigning the case to them.
7 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: -- I think what we're trying
8 to do is let them know what we are probably going to do and
9 then maybe they should take action.
10 MAYOR DODD: Now, in answer to the question you
11 asked downstairs before we came up here: No, we will not
12 discuss this tonight in this meeting downstairs. This will
13 not be discussed in a public meeting until he comes back to
14 us with a settlement.
15 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Dan, once we adjourn I'll
16 give you a call and then we'll go downstairs.
17 MR. ABBOTT: All right. Just, just, just so I'm
18 clear --
19 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I will --
20 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Hold on. He wants clarity --
21 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I need --
22 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Hold on, sir. He wants
23 clarity. Sir, sir, sir --
24 MAYOR DODD: He won't be around long enough to do
25 it --
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Sir, come on, please, guys.
2 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: We're still on the record.
3 MAYOR DODD: We're still on record.
4 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Please. Yes, sir, go ahead,
5 Dan.
6 MR. ABBOTT: Just so I'm clear, we are going to
7 invite Graves to continue the appeal in their name, correct?
8 MAYOR DODD: No. We're gonna, we're gonna --
9 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That's what I want --
10 MAYOR DODD: Okay --
11 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: He's right.
12 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: He's right. Yes, sir, yeah,
13 I'm listening to you.
14 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Correct.
15 MR. ABBOTT: We are, we are suggesting that Graves
16 might want to pursue an appeal in their own name. We are
17 not --
18 MAYOR DODD: No --
19 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Yes, sir --
20 MR. ABBOTT: -- offering to allow them to file an
21 appeal in the name of the city simply with another lawyer of
22 their choosing; is that true?
23 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Mayor says no --
24 MAYOR DODD: So, so -- Now, Let me clarify.
25 Excuse me. Wait a minute. Let me -- I want to speak now.
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1 Let me clarify this, Mr. Abbott. What you are saying is
2 that the three votes for us not to appeal were also the
3 three notes to appeal this case with the Graves Brothers.
4 So these three people have voted to appeal the case but for
5 the city not to do the appeal. Is that what you intended to
6 vote for?
7 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: No. My intent was not to
8 appeal, period.
9 MAYOR DODD: Okay. Then, then --
10 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: And assign it --
11 MAYOR DODD: Wait. Wait. Don't anybody say
12 anything until I finish this discussion. Okay. Your intent
13 was not to do that, period --
14 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: And assign it.
15 MAYOR DODD: -- which means that we can not invite
16 with your intent, we cannot say in any document from this
17 city that we want Graves Brothers to do this appeal; is that
18 correct?
19 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Why can't we?
20 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yeah.
21 MAYOR DODD: Well, because what's difference --
22 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Why are you raising your
23 voice?
24 MAYOR DODD: There is where I'm totally confused
25 on what you guys want to do. You're saying you want to
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1 appeal it but you don't want the city to appeal it --
2 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: No, I'm not saying that, Ed.
3 What I'm saying is, I do not want to go forth with the
4 appeal, period.
5 MAYOR DODD: Period.
6 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Period.
7 MAYOR DODD: Whether it's Graves Brothers
8 cooperating with us or not.
9 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Correct.
10 MAYOR DODD: Correct. So now, you don't --
11 there's no -- I just want this clear because ultimately --
12 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I think --
13 MAYOR DODD: -- this is going to come out in
14 public record and I want your voters to know that you voted
15 to appeal.
16 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I think we are clear, if I
17 can sum this thing up really quick to help Dan out --
18 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I don't want any legal
19 exposure.
20 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Well, hold on, sir --
21 MAYOR DODD: No. You're, you're voting to appeal.
22 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Gentleman, gentleman,
23 gentleman --
24 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: I'm voting to assign.
25 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Gentleman --
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1 MAYOR DODD: Do you not understand that?
2 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I have the floor. Please,
3 hold on a second, sir. I think he does understand it.
4 Let's not confuse each or honestly disrespect each other at
5 this point in time. I need clarity and so does Dan because
6 this is why I'm here and I'm going to walk out even more
7 confused than when we freakin' came in.
8 MAYOR DODD: Okay. So clarify with Dan.
9 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I'm trying to -- no. No.
10 I'm going to clarify here with you guys.
11 MAYOR DODD: Okay.
12 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: We've got already... I feel
13 we have already that we're still where we left, which is
14 fine. I understand that. Now, I thought I had a feeling
15 that we are now -- Dan and I are going to couch a letter to
16 Graves anatomy somehow within the law letting them know
17 somehow within the law that we're not going to go forward,
18 that, they might want to go forward if they so choose.
19 That's what I thought I heard.
20 MAYOR DODD: I don't think --
21 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: That's it.
22 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That's what you heard.
23 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: One at time.
24 MAYOR DODD: No. Stop. Okay. The question was
25 whether we appeal as a city, yes or no --
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Yes. I'm done. I'm done.
2 MAYOR DODD: -- the answer to that question was
3 no.
4 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Right.
5 MAYOR DODD: Now, if you want to ask -- Let's ask
6 another question to get answers.
7 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I thought I did, sir.
8 MAYOR DODD: I'm going to ask your question: Does
9 the council want the city to recommend to Graves that if
10 they choose they can go forward with the appeal?
11 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: To legally recommend --
12 MAYOR DODD: To legally recommend, if they choose
13 they can go forward with the appeal.
14 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yes.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER PARRIS: Yes.
16 MAYOR DODD: So your answer is yes. Your answer
17 is yes. Council member Hill?
18 COUNCIL MEMBER HILL: Yes.
19 MAYOR DODD: Your answer?
20 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I'm still no.
21 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Well, doesn't matter. I
22 think that we're confused at this point in time, sir, and I
23 apologize.
24 MAYOR DODD: Okay. No. So what you said is
25 correct: You are to notify Graves based on this council
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that they can go forward with the appeal if they choose.
CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: We can't take your right
.nOWA
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: That's not a vote. That's
not a vote --
COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That's correct. We
don't want to do it.
CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: This council can't take
his right away.
COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That's correct. Paul is
correct.
MR. ABBOTT: And forgive me for interrupting but
just so I'm clear --
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Yes, please.
MR. ABBOTT: -- you're going to advise Graves that
Graves can appeal in the name of Graves --
COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Yes.
MR. ABBOTT: -- or that Graves is authorized to
file an appeal in the name of the city?
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: No. No --
COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Well, what do you
recommend?
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: No --
COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: What do you recommend?
You're our attorney.
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: I thought the recommendation
2 was for them to pursue this matter, that, we were not going
3 to pursue it. They have every right now under the contract
4 per the contract that if they want to go forward they can go
5 forward, i.e., by filing some intervention and somehow
6 getting involved in this case at end date. That's what I
7 thought we were all talking about.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: Dan, what do you
9 recommend?
10 MR. ABBOTT: Well, it depends what you want to
11 accomplish. If you can allow them to appeal in the name of
12 the city then all you've really done is change your
13 attorney, and that's fine. But it would be the city
14 appealing the decision of the panel.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: No, I want them: Graves
16 Brothers.
17 MR. ABBOTT: On the other hand, what, what I think
18 we were left with at the end of the last executive
19 session -- tell me if we're still there -- the city is not
20 going to appeal. We're going to advise Graves and Graves...
21 not withstanding the annexation agreement at all, they
22 conceivable have rights. They might want to do something in
23 their own name and that's up to them --
24 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: There you go, that's it.
25 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: That's it.
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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1 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: That's what I thought we were
2 talking about.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER GILLIAMS: So Graves Brothers will
4 do it.
5 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: They have an opportunity
6 to do it if they so choose.
7 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: If they so choose. Now, I
8 will call you once we're done here, Dan, because I would
9 really like to get something out to them today. When are we
to going to start downstairs? We have to notify them.
11 MAYOR DODD: Right now I have 6:24 and this
12 executive session is terminated. And we're going to start
13 downstairs --
14 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I want to say something.
15 MAYOR DODD: Okay. Go ahead. We're not
16 terminated.
17 VICE MAYOR MAUTI: It's off the record.
18 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: No, no. It can't be off it.
19 MAYOR DODD: You want it off the record or on the
20 record?
21 CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Nothing in here is off the
22 record.
23 CITY MANAGER CARLISLE: It's got to be on the
24 record, sir.
25 MAYOR DODD: Nothing in here is off the record.
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But I just closed the meeting but you can't say anything in
here about anything because that's such to be a Sunshine
Violation.
VICE MAYOR MAUTI: Another one. Right.
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Just hold the thought and
we'll talk downstairs.
VICE MAYOR MAUTI: I'll hold it until counsel's
privilege.
MAYOR DODD: Then you can do it without worrying
about Sunshine.
CITY ATTORNEY ANON: Everything we're talking --
we're done. So we're done, sir.
(Thereupon, at 6:24 p.m., the above -entitled
matter was concluded.)
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STATE OF FLORIDA )
: SS
COUNTY OF INDIAN RIVER )
I. GREGORY CAMPBELL, Notary Public of the State of
Florida at large, certify that I was authorized to and did
stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that
the transcript is a true and complete record of my
stenographic notes.
DATED this 12TH day of AUGUST, 2020.
". O-.j
GRE OR CAMPBELL, COURT REPOR ER
Mop
My Commission Expires 08/08/2023
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A
Abbott 1:17 3:5
3:718114 6:7
7 :1,4, 8,12, 25
8:3 10:10 11:3
11:7 12:20
16:10,12 17:7
17:20 18:10
19:5,14,17
20:8 26:617114
26:19124 27:1
27: 519113118
27:22125 28:15
28:18,21 29:6
29:19 30:1,8
30:20 31:5
32:1112 33:11
37:16 40:13,19
40:22 41:18124
42:6119 43:7
43:18 44:3
45:4 50:7112
50:14 51:18
52 : 7113,16,24
55 : 24 57 : 3,16
57:18 62:11119
63:6 64:17118
64:22 68:17
69:6115,20
70:1 74:12115
74:18 75:10,17
ability 24:15
37:18
able 7:5 15:1
26:19
above -entitled
77:13
acceptable 2:6,8
accepted 48: 25
accomplish
75:11
account45:17
accrued 45:15
action 5:3 9:1
23:1 30:8 32:5
39:24 41:21
42:25 43:5
50:10 52:9125
53:9 68:9
actions 5:7
actual 4:11
ad 14:12.18
add 15:7
addition 32:14
additional6:23
57:4
address 4:20
7:8 58:5,6
addressed
37:21
adjourn 68:15
adjourned
67:19
administrative
28:7 49:14
50:18
adverse 45 : 5
55:2,4
advertised 4:6
advice 3:20 4:1
65:21
advise 9: 6 74:15
75:20
advising 37:25
affirmative
10:18
affirmatively
13:4
afforded 27:14
28:5
ago 55:24
agree 12:21
14:22 39:8,10
42:21 43:12
45:3,7 48:14
52:17 54:21122
58:6 62:14
agreed 11:13,21
12:25 44:5
agreeing 6:17
12:2
agreement 6:14
6:25 7:22 8:15
8:20 9:13,14
9:16123 10:2
10:11113,22
13:2 23:11
28 : 24 30 :11,17
31:13 32:2
34:16 42:6
44:417 47:25
49:17 50:2122
51:4113,15
52:4,8,22 53:7
62:22 65:10
75:21
agrees 20:13,14
29:3 31:23
32:7
ahead 29:9 31:1
34:2,3 42:10
42:11112113
46:4,5 49:23
59:20 69:4
76:15
ahold 66:22
Airens 38:18
al 3:23 34:24
allege 10:21
52 : 9,18, 22
53:5
alleged 10:13
49:18
allow 5:12 24:1
43:9 54:1
69:20 75:11
allowed 41:19
42:7 43:15
allowing 4:9
30:16 58:11
alpha 3:24
amount 57:4
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
anatomy 72:16
annexation 2:5
3:18 6:14 8:14
8:19 9:12113
9:16122 10:1
10:11 12:8,9
15:9 20:11
23:2111 26:16
28:24 29:1
30:17 32:10,24
34:14 52:418
53:7 75:21
annexed 13:10
53:3
announced 4:6
28:3
Anon 1:16 2:14
2:19119 3:10
3:13 4:16 7:12
7:18,25 8:14
15:7114119122
16:8 17:15
19:119116121
24:25 25:518
25:15,18 34:11
34:24 37:15
39 : 9,14 40 : 6,9
40:12 46:5,19
46:22125 47:19
56:25 57:17
58:3 59:22
60:1,8,16,20
60:24 61:419
62:5,7 63:1,5
63 :10,18,24
64:1,8,21,24
65:3,7 66:15
66 : 21 67 :1, 3, 5
67:9117121
68:417115,20
68:22 69:114
69:12119123
71:12116120,22
71:25 72:219
2
72:12 73:11417
73:11121 74:4
74:14120,23
75:1 76:117118
76:21 77:5,11
answer 9: 23
10:2 18:22
19:15,22 33:5
33:11 34:4
35:23 36:19
37:617114117
38:12123 42:2
58:6125 59:9
59:12 60:3,4,7
60:9 64:2
68:10 73:2116
73:16119
answered 51:18
58:11
answers 11:18
13:13 58:10
73:6
anticipated
51:20
anybody 56:19
70:11
anymore 4:13
29:8
apologies 28:19
apologize 8:1
73:23
appeal9:4,8,19
10:7 11:5,6,17
11:18 12:61719
12:10,11,17
13:6 14:1117
16:7110111115
16:17122123124
16:25 17:13123
18:20 19:24
20:212,8 21:13
21:17 22:3,13
22:20,22,22,25
24:11 27:9
30:3110119
31:16 33:13,14
34:416 35:3,9
35:13,15 36:16
36:17123 37:12
42:9113,23
43:2119124
44:4,5111113
44:16121 45:2
45:617 47:919
49:15 50:15,20
51:1, 5, 6,10,11
51:13 52:20,21
53:1,3 54:2,3
54:15,24 55:7
55:7121 56:217
56:11 57:9124
58: 2,5,15,21
59:217,8,25
61: 3, 7,13,15
61:23124 62:2
64:3 65:20
69:7116121
70 : 2, 3,4, 5, 8,17
71:11114115,21
72: 25 73:10,13
74:1116119
75:11120
appealing 13:5
33:7119 35:2
44:20 55:2
59:21 62:3
75:14
appeals 5:21,25
8:9 16:14 32:3
51:4110,16
54:16 55:25
56:1,3
appears 3:10
13:16
appreciate
25:24
apprised 47:25
approach 14:24
appropriate
62:22 66:17
appropriately
4:6
approve 63:23
approximate
45:16
Approximately
29:21
arbitration
49:14
areas 31:23
argue 18:3 53:2
argued 5:24
argues 17:22
arguing 17:2
argument 17:25
64:15
arguments 18:3
arising 32:9
arrive 49:17
ASAP 64:11
asinine 23:7.13
2 3 :15,19,19, 21
asked 9:21
31:12 68:11
asking 30:2,25
33:9 37:20
38:16 51:14
aspects 65:13
asserting 8:21
assign 53:24
67:11114 70:10
70:14 71:24
assigning 68:3
68:4,6
assist 43 :16
44:18 45:19
58:15
associated
20:13 29:3
31:24
assume 11:2
12:2 15:20
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
20:13 29:3
30:18 31:23125
42:16117 43:6
44:21 46:11
48:9 52:6
57:24 58:11
assuming 12:9
29:7 66:21
ATTENDANCE
1:13
attention 26:9
attorney 1:16
2:19120 3:10
3:14 4:16 5:5
7:12118,25
8:10,22 9:10
9:21 11:25
12:16 13:8
14:112 15:7114
15:19122 16:8
17:15 19:119
19:16121 20:8
22:16 24:25
25:518115118
30:24125 31:7
32:21 33:8
34:4,7111118
34:19124 35:8
35 :10,19, 20
36:19 37:14115
38:7 39:9114
39:20 40:619
40:12 42:1
44: 25 46: 5,12
46:19122125,25
47:19 52:10
53:19 56:25
57:3,15,16,16
57:17 58:3
59:22 60:118
60:16120124
61:419 62:5,7
62:10 63:1,5
63 :10,18, 24
3
64:1,8,21,24
65:3,7 66:15
66 : 21 67 :1, 3, 5
67:9117121
68:417115,20
68:22 69:114
69:12119123
71:12116120122
71:25 72:219
72:12 73:11417
73:11121 74:4
74:14120,23,25
75:1113 76:117
76:18,21 77:5
77:11
attorney -client
1: 3 4:12114115
5:9 47:13
63:17
attorneys 4:10
13:14 29:9125
43:9 47:14
62:22
Audubon 1:4
3:23 38:25
40:24
AUGUST 78:14
authorized
74:18 78:10
available 5:22
52:19
avoid 43:4
44:12
award 8:17
49:13
awarded 29:16
aware6:21 7:3
8:22 9:22
11:15 25:10
33:2 47:8
50 :11,13 67 : 24
B
B47:21
baby 24:2
back6:3 8:3
11:8 12:11
14:18,22 15:9
15:10,24 16:2
21:4 22:5 23:6
29:11 41:9
45:17 47:2
53:25 63:21
68:13
bankrupt 51:24
bankruptcy
51:24
based 8:11 10:1
20:11 29:1
40:13 52:7
73:25
basically 13:12
13:17
Bass 20: 20 21:4
22:4
bearing 45:17
beginning 56:14
believe 11:11
14:19 19:3,3
21:5 37:18,20
41:25 42:2
66:16
believed 7:8
best 13:22
37:17
better 25: 21
65:9
beyond 18:8
34:7
Bierman 3:16
big 20:16
biggest 53:13
bill 10:15 29:14
51:9
bills 62:17
binding 49:17
bit 17:3 47:22
blowing 58:20
board 34:5,5
35:9113 49:14
boast 37:24
borne 49 : 8
bottom 6 :15,15
13:13,15 28:3
bound 12:8
bounds 37:3
Brass 22:2
breach 10:13
52:9122
breached 10:16
10:21 13:5
break 67:10
brief11:9 18:15
bring 10:18
14:21 22:17
25:8
bringing 25:24
Brothers 8:15
9:11617125 10:8
10:15 11:9
12:6112 14:4
20:1 26:17118
29:23 30:3
31:8 32:317113
32:14 40:8
41:9115 42:24
42:25 43:4,8
43:11112120,21
45:10 46:11
48:18 50:3
51:11 52:3
53:17125 54:16
55:6,8,15 56:3
57:4 61:13,20
66: 20 70 : 3,17
71:7 75:16
76:3
brought41:13
BS 24:9
building 38:19
bunch 53:16
business 11:25
buy 20:3
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
C
call 2:4 27:23
68:16 76:8
called 18:1
27:17
campaign 24:4
CAMPBELL 78:9
78:19
candidly 19:17
cared 25:23
Carlisle 1:16
2:17117 67:8
67:15,19 69:2
69:11 72:23
74:2,8 76:5,23
case 1:5 3:18,24
5:8124 14:14
16:13,14,21
33:19 34:8,10
34:12125,25
36:24125 37:3
41:5 43:9
48:22 65:25
67:12114 68:3
68:6 70:3,4
75:6
cases 4: 22
catch 28:18
Catch-22 43 :15
cause9:1 18:1
18:14117121
19:13 53:8
caused 41:6
census 65: 24
certain 58:23
certainly 11:19
12:20 30:1121
31:14 32:2
45:4
CERTIFICATE
78:6
certify 78:10
certiorari 16:17
18:6 19:7
0
27:19123 28:4
28:9 30:21
challenge 8:17
12:25 13:1
17:4 20:10
28:25 29:4
31:24 32:23
34:14 39:19
43:10 50:3
challenges
20:14
challenging
43:13,22
CHAMBERS 1:9
chance 53:18,20
change 53:6
65:8 75:12
Chapter 32:25
33:1 34:15
39:18,18
Charles 1:14
2:21 36:117
39:3 54:10
56:15 59:20
63:25 66:8
check 23:10
choose 10:7
11:5,6 12:18
22:12 54:25
72:18 73:10,12
74:1 76:617
chooses 22: 5
choosing 69:22
chose 12 :15,16
43:2,9
circuit 3:22 8:17
9:5 11:22 13:5
17:2122 18:12
28:1,3 30:8,13
30:16 31:2
41:1116 43:13
65:19
circumstances
16:13 26:20
58:24 59:1
cite 50:21
citizens 23: 3
24:19
city 1:1,4,9,16
1:16 2: 5117117
2 :18,19,19,22
2 : 24 3 : 3,10,14
3:17117121123
4:16 5:19 7:12
7:18,25 8:10
8:16122125 9:2
9:9110,18,20
10:1116121
11:1, 2,13, 21
12:4,8 13:4,10
14:111116 15:7
15:14119122
16:2,8 17:15
18:3,4 19:1,9
19:16121 20:15
22:5,16,17,18
24:25 25:5,8
25:15,18 26:12
30:14 31:7119
3 2 : 4, 8,13,17
32:22 33:23
34:7111124
37:15 38:7
39:119114121
40:11619112
41: 2,8,13,20
42:11114115,16
42:23 43:1,5
43:10,11,18
44 : 2, 3,11 45 : 5
46 : 5,19, 22, 25
47:19 48:819
48:11121 49:1
49:718112117
49:19 50:2110
51:5,10 52:4
52:10 53:3,6
53:19 55:2120
55 : 23 56: 8,11
56:25 57:2
58:3,22 59:5,8
59:22124 60:1
60 : 8,16, 20, 24
61: 3141719114
62:5,7 63:1,5
63 :10,18, 24
64:1,8,21,24
65:3,7 66:15
66:21 67:1,3,5
67 : 8,9,15,17
67:19121 68:4
68:7115,20,22
69:11214111112
69:19121123
70:5,17 71:1
71:12116120,22
71:25 72:219
72:12123125
73:1141719111
73 : 21 74: 2,4,8
74:14119120123
75:1112113119
76 :1, 5, 7,18, 21
76: 23 77 : 5,11
city's 42:15,25
43:9 45:5 49:8
62:3
civil24:7 25:1
35:14
claim 6:19 10:18
12:23 13:41719
13:9111 39:22
39:24 40:1
48:20 49:12
claims 8:21 32:8
32:13 41:13
53:13
clarify 69:24
70:1 72:8,10
clarity 58:7
68:20,23 72:5
clau 14:9
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
clause 10:24
25:10 52:5
clear 5:23 15:20
19:2 25:20
32:2 58:7
68:18 69:6
71:11116 74:13
cleared 41:8
clerk 5:19
client 33:17
45:8
closed 1:3 77:1
Cole 3:16
collusion 64:1
come8:12 14:3
15:9110,24
16:2 21:4 22:5
23:6 41:9
43:23,24 53:25
55:15 63:21
64:5 66:1 69:1
71:13
comes 68:13
comfortable
45:13 51:22
coming 24:9
29:10 65:25
commencement
39:24
comment4:13
Commission
78:20120
commitment
53:5
community 23:4
48:17
competent 28:8
49:15
complaint42:4
complete 78:12
compliant 66:3
complied 11:15
41:2
con 23:20
5
conceivable
75:22
concern 9:12
43:10
concerned 25:9
25:10
concerning 3:20
4:1
concerns 37:22
concluded 51:16
77:14
conclusion 5:20
5:22 64:3
confident 41: 2
confidential
4:25
confine4:18
confines 6:6
15:25
confirmation
41:25
conflict 26:23
44:1123 45:2
46:14
conflicted 26:21
confuse 72:4
confused 70:24
72:7 73:22
connection 6:18
11:14117122
37:22 48:15
52:17 53:4
64:19
consensus 37:6
64:20,25 65:7
66:5,8
consent49:12
consented
41: 20
conservation
23:12
consider 28:13
36:15117
considered 4:21
28:16
construed 4:18
consummated
49:16
contend 43:11
53:15
contingencies
20:12
continually 29:2
continue 31:16
44:24 47:3
69:7
contract 10:12
12:1 13:17
52:9 75:3,4
contrary 45: 8
control23:25
24:1116120
39:6 56:4,5
controlling 23:3
conversation
40:14 47:12
conversations
6:24
convince 24:22
cooperate 6:17
10:616 37:22
43:12 48:15,18
49:25 52:17120
54:2 55:16
56:5 57:8,23
66:20
cooperating
71:8
copies 6:13
corner 24: 2
corral 6:3
correct 9 :11
12:19 14:17
15:8 26:13,23
27:11 30:7119
31:25 32:11
40:5 41:17
42:5,18 61:16
69:7114 70:18
71:9110 73:25
74:6110,11
cost 8:16 10:16
12:23 17:6
22:17 24:12114
30:12 32:4120
55:9
couch 40:15
47:13,17 62:12
64:12 65:13
67:21 72:15
couching 66:3
council 1:119114
1:15,15 2:5,9
2:11122124125
3:3 4:12 6:21
7:11113,15,16
7:20,23 8:8,12
9:22 10:3 20:7
20:23 21:5,10
21:12116119122
22 :1,6,8,10,14
22:18,19,21,23
22:24 23:14116
23:18,24 24:5
24:7,8 25:10
25:12 26:2,3,4
26: 5,8,15,22
26:25 27:216
27:11116120,24
28:13,16,20,23
29:7121 30:7
30:15,23 31:6
31:21 32:6118
33:418113 34:3
34:9113,18
35 : 2,4,8,12,18
35:24 36:417
36:10,15,18
37:5,11 38:6,8
38:11116120
39 : 3,12,15,17
40:7118 41:3
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
41:22 42:3,10
43:3,14,23
44:17 45:9123
46 :1, 5, 7,10,16
46:17124 47:4
47:18,23 48:2
49:117 50:6111
50:13,19 51:17
51:19 52:12114
52:23 53:23
54:18 55:5,10
56:9121 57:117
57:11113,15,19
57 : 22 58 :10,14
58:18,23 59:1
59 : 3, 6,10,13
59:19 60:519
60:15,22,25
61: 2, 6, 8,10,11
61:12116118,19
61:23 62:18
63:22125 64:7
65:216 66:5,7
66:12118 67:2
67:10,11 68:2
68:19121 69:9
70:10,14,20,22
71:18,24 72:21
72 : 22 73 : 9,14
73 :15,17,18,25
74 : 6, 8,10,17
74:21124 75:8
75:15,25 76:3
councilman
2:23 3:4 42:22
53:9
Councilmen
40:22
counsel 1:17
3:8,15,17
11:12 48:9110
48:21124 49:8
counsel's 77:7
county 3:22
r
I
15:4 78:2
couple 5:2
14:17
course 5:14
58:19
court 2:15 3:22
5:16 8:18 9:5
11:22 13:516
14:7111125
15:17 16:25
17:2118,22,23
18:12120 20:18
21:719113
27:13 28:1,3
30:8,13,19
32:16 39:19120
41:1 43:13
49:14124 51:21
60:17 78:19
courts 4:18
cover 65 :16.20
covered 31:22
cower 24: 2
Cox 1:4 33:22
34:23 39:1
crap 24:9
crystal 25:20
current 19:17
31:17
currently 3:21
30:4 51:12
cut 13:13,14
64:19
D
D6:14
damages 10:21
13:9
Damien 1:14
2:22 33:10
35:3 38:10,12
45:21121 58:17
59:16118 66:6
66:14
Damien's 60:25
damn 24:12
Dan 3:7.14.19
17:16 19:1
37:6116117
38:3,6,22
46:20,21 47:1
47:12 48:3
57:3,15,18
63:7 64:13,17
68:15 69:5
71:17 72:518
72:15 75:8
76:8
Daniel 1:17
date 18 :10,11
50:3 65:9 75:6
DATED 78:14
day3:20 11:8
47:12 67:25
78:14
days 18 :12,17
19:4 51:6
62:16 64:2,3,9
DCA 19:11 27:7
42:14 49:23
51:20
deadline 19:2
51:7
decide 18:20
19:12 26:10116
29:7 47:3,20
47:20 56:4
decided 17:3
36:18
decides 56:4
decision 5:14
7:5 9:5 13:5
13:18 17:4
18:12 19:6112
25:11122 27:10
28:1 34:5
37:12 40:9110
41:1 43:11113
43:22 48:1
52:20 59:23,24
60:1 75:14
decisions 5:7
7:6 53:11114
defend 9:18
12:17 13:1118
43:9
defended 49: 5
defending 8:16
12:23 41:20
defense 6:18
8:16 10:14119
11:2 12:3,4
32:4123 34:14
37 : 23 42 :16,18
42:25 43:6116
43:25 44:1122
44:24 46:12
48:9115,19
52:6117 53:24
57:24 58:11
62:24 65:20
defenses 52:19
52:25
defines 22:16
delivered 11:1
48:8
delta 6:15
demand 6:20
48:20
denying 35:9,13
35:21
depends 75:10
described 64:22
descriptions 6:8
desire 9:8
detail 6:7
development
10:22
Dianne 39:1
difference 54:14
54:23 55:114
55:12 70:21
different 7:21
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
36:13
difficult 18:21
31:18
dime 31:4 42:14
44:19 45:19
49:25 58:16
d i rest 26 : 9,11
36:12
direction 5:14
8:8112 19:6
31:5 45:6
47 : 22 50 :17,19
62:18120
directly 34:10
34:11
disagree 38:3
disclosing 67:23
discuss 4: 3,10
4:11 5:10 6:11
6:12 7:3,4
9:13,16,17
13:24125 33:21
33:24 34:17
35:17 36:21121
36:22 68:12
discussed 8:5
65:18 68:13
discussing
33:17 34:22
35:1 36:25
67:24
discussion 6:6
36:8 70:12
discussions
4:18119121
5:12 6:1
disrespect 72:4
District 13:6
16:25 17:23
18:13,20
document 14:7
16:11118 17:2
17 :10,16,22,22
17:24 18:9111
7
18:19 19:719
19:10 22:16
27:3 70:16
documents
16:24 17:14
24:13
Dodd 1:13 2:3
2 :10,13 3 :1,1, 5
3:9 4:15 7:17
7:22124 10:4
10:23 11:4124
13:12 15:12115
15:21123 16:9
17:5,11 18:7
18:25 19:22
20:6122 21:2,8
21:11115,17,20
21:24 22:41719
22:12115,20,23
23:17123 24:6
25 : 7113,17, 24
26:4 33:316110
33:12115 34:6
34:16121125
3 5 : 3, 6,10,16
35:22 36:21618
36:12120,24
37:219 38:5,7
38 :10,14,18,23
39:5,8,10 40:8
40:10,17 45:21
45:25 46:3,21
50:5 54:10,13
54:19 55:6112
56:11119122
57:619117121
58:119112117
58:20,25 59:2
59:518112118
59:24 60:317
60 :11113,19,23
61:2,6110114
61:17122124
62:3,6,21 63:3
63:9114120
64:5 66:10,14
66:24 67:417
67:13 68:6110
68:24 69:3,8
69 :10,18, 24
70:9111115,21
70:24 71:517
71:10113,21
72:1,8,11,20
72:24 73:2,5,8
73:12116119124
76:11115,19,25
77:9
dog 37:24
doing 21:13
24:18 30:15
44:5 61:7113
61:14
dollar 53:13
dollars 57:4
Donna 1:4 33:22
doubt 22:24
downside 43 :19
44:14
downstairs
66 : 24 68 :11,12
68:16 76:10,13
77:6
Dr 23:23
draft 22:16
drop 14:16 20:1
due 27:14 28: 5
28:11 49:20,22
63:10
E
E 1:16
e-mail8:9.24
40:13,15 53:19
earlier 37:21
easy 24:11
Ed 1:13 3:1 71:2
effect 4: 23
eight51:6
either 4:14
10:12 13:11
47:21 63:12
elaborate 3 3: 1
elect 10:25 48:7
elected 11:20
eliminate 50:8
employ48:21
enclaves 20:12
29:2
encourage
31:19
enter 8 :18 31:1
entered 30:14
entitled 10:24
11:19 41:14
42:5 44:9 48:6
49:4124
entity 4: 9 26: 21
environment
19:18
environmental
20:25
erred 17:2
escrow 29:14.23
29:24 31:2111
31:12115 45:14
49 : 4 51: 3, 8,15
52:2 54:6120
57:5,25 62:14
66:8
Esquire 1:17
essential 27:14
28:5,11
essentially 18:2
31:7
estimate 19:20
et 3:23 34:24
event 8: 25 9: 25
events 49 : 6
eventually 8:18
everybody 2: 6
13:25 15:4
20:5 24:23
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
Everyone's 3:10
evidence 28:8
exactly 19: 5
23:7
example 22:1
exception 4: 8
4:17 6:3 12:12
Excuse 7:11
33:4 52:13
57:8 60:7
69:25
execute 54: 21
executive 8: 5,7
9:14117121
33:17 34:20
67:22 75:18
76:12
exercise 43 : 21
exhausted 32:3
expense 49 :1
expenses 30:24
32:20 48:25
49:7
expert 32:21
expired 49:16
expires 62:16
78:20
exposed 50:2
exposure 43:17
45:10 46:11
48:17 50:15
53:20 54:1
71:19
expressed 3:19
extend 32:20
extensions
18:18
extensively
9:16
extent 10:25
48:7 54:4
extraordinaire
3:4
F
face17:24
facie 17:25
fact4:22 14:11
23:8,21 24:14
facts 24:10
47:25
fail49:22
failure40:2
fair19:21 37:16
64:16
falls 12:4
far 29:14
favor 8:18 23: 2
23:3 30:14
federal35:14
fee8:17 10:19
12:22 30:13
53:22
feel 5:6 25:21
40:16 45:13
47:5 50:4
51:21 64:10111
65:9 72:12
feeling 66:12
72:14
fees 10:9 12:13
12:14117 13:2
13:8,19,21
14:23,25 31:15
32:15,16,20,21
32:22 39:20
48:25 49:6
51:24
felt 15:3
fight 37:25
file 12:14.18
13:8118,25
16:9111117120
16:23 17:1112
17 :13,16,19, 21
18:4115119
19:7124 30:519
31:19 45:7
50:25 51:24
52:8 54:24
55:6121 56:7
69:20 74:19
filed 11:9.22
14:8 19:10
39:19 45:6
53:11
filing 12:22 20:2
53:22 75:5
final5:3,7,7
35:19 49:13
finalized 55:25
56:1,3
find 6:1 14:11
14:13,15 51:5
findings 28:7
finds 51:11
fine 12:7 55:1
61:17 65:8
66:18,19 72:14
75:13
finish 36:8 46:6
48:3 57:8 65:4
70:12
finished 5:24.25
24:24 26:2
36:3
firm 3:15 11:21
13:1 41:21
44 : 5
first 2 :14,16
8:14 9:2116
10:5 18:8,11
19:10 26:12
29:23 50:20
52:25 59:23,24
63:12
first -tier 28:4
five 16:20 45:13
flipping 19:18
floor 13:24 72:2
Florida 1:1110
2:1 3:22 4:617
39 : 22 78 :1,10
focus 25:2
focused 25:2,5
follow 2:6 43:17
follow-up 41:25
62:8,8
followed 9:10
27:14
follows 50:18
force 54 :17,19
54:20 55:15
58:17
forced 23:22
forcing 54:18
foregoing 78:11
forever23:12
forgive 74:12
formal 5:2
forth 71: 3
forward 7:9,10
22:25 24:11115
25:22125 47:11
49:19 64:14
65:14122 66:22
72:17118 73:10
73:13 74:1
75:4,5
found 15:17
four 6:15 7:22
Fourth 7:17
13:6 16:25
17:23 18:13,20
19:11 27:7
42:14 49:22
51:20 65:19
frame 18:7
frames 8:21
frankly 14:16
20:18
freakin' 72:7
front 24:10 28:1
42:1
frustrated 25:18
full 17:21
fully 6:18,21 7:2
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
10:616 25:24
37:22 47:24
48:15,18 52:17
55:16
funds 31:13
further 8:8,25
9:417 16:24
20:14 27:9
32:7 43:10,13
47 : 22 52 :18,19
54:11
furthering 30:3
future 23: 3,25
24:1121 63:15
G
gauge 7:6
general6:14
9:11
gentleman 58:4
60:16 71:22122
71:23125
gentlemen
63:19
get -go 49: 5
getting 25:18
38:1 45:22
51:2 64:10
75:6
GG 78:20
Gilliams 1:14
2:9111122122
4:12 7:11113
7:16120,23
26 : 4, 5, 8,15, 22
26:25 27:216
27:11116120,24
28:13,16,20,23
29:7121 30:7
30:15,23 31:21
32:6118 33:4,8
33:13 34:3,13
34:18 35:214,8
35:12118,24
36: 3,4,7,10,15
S
36:18 37:5,11
38 : 6,8,11,16
38:20,25 39:3
39:12115,17
40:7118 41:3
41:22 42:3,10
43:3,14,23
44:17 45:9123
46:1,7110117
46 : 24 47 : 4,18
47:23 48:2
50:6111113
51:17119 52:12
52:14123 53:23
54:18 55:5,10
56:9 57:117111
57 :15,19, 22
58 :10,14,18, 23
59 :1, 3, 6,10,13
59:19 60:9115
61:12116 63:25
65:216 66:7112
66:18 67:2111
68:2119121
69:9 70:10,14
70:20,22 71:18
71:24 72:22
73:14 74:6110
74:17121124
75:8,15,25
76:3
give 13:14
18:15,17 19:19
45:18 68:16
given 31:17,17
gives 14:19
24:15,15 50 : 22
glad 63:6
go 2:12,15 4: 25
5:12118 6:219
7:7 13:24 16:1
16:4125 22:15
22:25 24:11114
25:22 26:10
27:214 29:9
31:1,3 34:2,3,7
38:12119 39:18
42:10,11,12,13
46 : 4, 5 47 : 2,11
48:1 49:23
55:14 56:25
58:15 59:20
60:2,5 62:1
65:14 66:19121
68:16 69:4
71: 3 72:17118
73:10,13 74:1
7 5 : 4,4, 24
76:15
goes 12:8 17:17
25:9 32:18
55:7
going 2:4,9,11
3:12 5:6112
6:9110,16 7:9
7:10 10:414
13:719120123
14:23 15:3
19:12 20:6
21:919124 23:5
23:9113 24:3
24:14 26:8,10
26:10,11 29:12
31:25 32:10
38:20,21 42:11
44:10,10,11
45:11 46:9
47:16 50:9
51:7120,21
53:21 54:13
55:16 58:8,14
58:15,16,18,19
59:617120120
61:12120,21
62:119112
63:20120 64:12
64:13,25 67:7
67:11113,18,21
67:23 68:8
69:6 71:13
72:6110,15,17
73:8 74:15
75:2120120
76:10,12
gonna 38:8 59:4
69:8,8
good 9:15 22:10
gosh 17:7
gotten 44:4
government
53:10,16
governmental
4:9
governments
53:13
Graham 1:4
33:22 34:22
39:1
granted 30:9
Graves 2 : 5 8 :15
8:20 9:11617125
10:8115 11:9
11:12 12:6112
12:24125 13:18
13:19 14:4121
15:8 20:1
26:17118 29:22
30:3 31:8 32:3
32:717112114
40:8 41:9115
42:24125 43:4
43:7111112120
43:20 44:5,9
44:14 45:10
46:11 47:11114
48:5118 49:10
50:3,9,21 51:5
51:5,11 52:3
53:17125 54:16
55:6,8,15 56:3
57:4 61:12120
65:13 66:4120
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
69:7115 70:3
70:17 71:7
72:16 73:9125
74 :15,16,16,18
75:15,20,20
76:3
G raves' 42 :1
67:5
great 53:8,17
GREGORY 78:9
78:19
guarantee
21:24 55:18119
55:23
guess 9:24 10: 5
35:25
guy 11:25
guys 14:20
24:10 25:20,21
29:11 37:25
40:15 47:31415
47:5,20,22
58:21 63:3
64:14 66:11
69:1 70:25
72:10
H
half 8:4
Halleran 1:4
33:22 34:25,25
39:1
hand 29:9.24
47:3 75:17
happen 20:21
22:13
happening 20:9
hard 13:14
60:22124125
61:112111
harmless 20:15
32:8119
he'll 9:10
head 21:15
hear20:5
10
heard 6:25 8:1
64:25 66:5
72:19122
hearing 17:18
61:9
heart 37:24
held 4:7
Helf man 3:16
hell23:5
help 5:13 29:12
45:11 52:1
71:17
hesitate 19:19
Hey 45 :13 64:12
64:13 65:21
Hill 1:15 3:313
22:23,24 23:15
23:16118,23,24
24:8 26:2,3
39:8,10 56:21
57:13 59:12
60:3122125
61:3,6,8 73:17
73:18
hired 44 : 24
hold 5:19 20:15
25:2 32:8,19
45:21 46:19120
63:10,19 64:2
65:3 67:15
68:20,22 71:20
72:3 77:5,7
honestly 72:4
hook 14:24
hope 5:19 23:6
51:18
hopefully 63:15
hoping 64:22
hour 56:22
hours 17:9
hypothetically
26:16
I
Le 3:23 75:5
immediate 66:2
immediately
14:2 19:24
63:11
immunity 53:12
impact 7:5,9
22:17
implications
9:18
important 24:21
53:23
impression
17:12
inclined 31:10
50:25
included 32:20
includes 14:4
including 5:20
8:17 15:4
30:13 32:24
34:15 39:20
incorrect 15:18
incur 12:23
incurred 8:16
13:2 30:12
32:4122
indemnified
32:12 49:19
indemnify 20:14
32:8,11 39:25
indemnity 32:19
Indian 3:22
78:2
indicated 4:5
8:18 45:1
individuals
63:12
infers 11:4
information
63:22 67:6124
informed 7:5
25:22 48:1
initial 19:12
42:21
initially40:23
instance 32:15
instruct 14:1
57:2
instructing
47:11123
insubstantial
17:10
intend 42:23
43:19 44:13
intended 8:25
9:1 70:5
intent 70:7.12
70:16
intentions 41:1
interest44:1
45:8117
interesting
47:16
interim 62:17
64:9110
interject46:20
interjecting
34:21
interrupt 23:16
23:18
interrupting
74:12
intervene 30:6
30:16 31:9
41:16 42:12
45:19 57:8
intervention
30:9 75:5
introduce 2:14
3:2,5
introduced 3:15
introductions
2:15
investigation
32:23 34:14
invite 31:15
43:25 69:7
70:15
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
involved 17:3
31:1 75:6
Island 1:4 3:23
8:9117119 9:19
11:9123 13:1
14:8 15:2 18:2
18:2115 20:1
30:14 32:14117
33:22 34:22
38:25 41:19
issue 18:1.13,21
18:23 25:6125
47: 3,10,20,21
54:7
issued 18:17
issues 5:4 10:11
14:10,10 15:16
30:2 55:3,20
55:22
items 9:2
J
Jim 1:15 3:213
24:6,6
job 45:9
Jr1:16 2:19
3:14
judge 17:23
judges 29:16
judgment 28:7
49:13
judgments 32:9
judicial3:22
49:14
July 1:7 2:1
19:3
jump 64:14,14
June 19:3,6
jurisdiction
49:15
justice 24:19
K
keep 23:1,23,23
24:616 33:6
11
45:9 46:10
keeping 25:1
kept 53:16
kind 8:6 16:21
16:23 18:7
47:16 63:7111
68:5
kinds 14:10
knew 41:19
knock 54:6
know 5:1 6:8123
11:18,24 13:14
15:10,24 16:2
17:719 18:13
20:17 41:9124
42:17124 43:20
44 : 9,18, 2 3
45:1116 47:10
47:15 50:21121
50:23 51:11122
54:3 56:23
62:12119119122
63:5 64:13
65:11 67:25
68:3,5,8 71:14
72:16
knowing 25:21
known 24:12
L
L1:17
lack 40 : 20 41:4
41:7110
laid 26:1
land 14:18 53:6
53:11114
language 6:22
7:3,9
large 78:10
law 4: 7,9,22
27:15 28:6112
33:17 34:112
35:7114 37:4
37:19 38:3,14
38:21 40:16
41:5,21 42:7
65:15 66:3
67:22123 72:16
72:17
lawsuit 6:8
39:25 40:24
41:19 53:18
lawsuits 53:10
lawyer 55: 7
69:21
lawyers 47 : 20
48:13 54:4,5
56:6
laying 54:17
leave 16: 3 48:16
left 28:11 47:1
72:13 75:18
legal 4:14 6:19
9:3 10:9 12:17
13:19121 14:23
14:25 20:10
27:3 28:25
39:19 45:10
48:20 50:3
51:24 65:21
71:18
legalities 22:14
legally 65:17
73:11112
legit 51:25
legitimate 62:9
length 19:15
let's 2 :13,14
16:4 26:15
30:18 33:6
38:6 39:12117
39:18 47:20
56:24 58:4
72:4 73:5
letter 46: 23
47:17 62:12117
63:8,11 64:11
65:13 66:4
67:22 68:3
72:15
letting 43:19
68:5 72:16
level 30:13,16
31:2 41:16
42:5
levels 39:20
liability 9:25
12:3 30:17
40:3 41:6
55:20,22 56:7
lie 23:2
light31:5
likelihood 9:24
65:23
limit 50:15
53:20
limitations
31:18
limited 32:21.24
34:15
limits 53:12
line 6:15 7:17
10:5 13:13,15
list 50:23
Listen 57:12
listening 20:8
56:17 69:13
litigation 3:15
3:17120 5:15
5:20,22 10:1
10:16 11:14
29:10 42:8
little 24:2 47:22
54:9
live 60:21
Iocal53:10
long 18:19
19:10 41:8
47:7 60:1
68:24
look 17:24
40:21 45:13
looking 7:20,21
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
14:7 18:8
40:21
lose 12:11 30:18
lost 29:23 42:4
53:4 64:19
lot 11:25 14:819
15:24 16:1
20:23 25:21
26:9 52:24
65:9
lower 27:13
luck 68:1
M
main 1:10 6:10
6:12 7:2 13:6
major 62:16
majority 37:8
64:11
making 39:23
53:16
man 23:20 24:8
manager 1:16
2:17118 14:1
67:8115,19
69:2111 72:23
74:2,8 76:5,23
Manny 1:16
2:19 3:9113
8:3 19:1114
40:5 45:25,25
57:17118,19
60:6 62:6
64:18
map 14:13,17
matter 3: 8 4: 2
4:21 8:9 19:12
23:22 34:16
49:18 73:21
75:2 77:14
matters 4:10
6:2
Mauti 1:14 2:21
2:21 16:5,6
19:23 20:4120
12
36:13,17,20,22
36:25 37:13
39:7116 46:9
54:11 56:17
59:16 60:12
61:5,24 62:1
63:19 65:5
66:16 69:14
70:7119 71:216
71:9 73:20
75:24 76:14117
77:4,7
mayor 1:13,14
2 : 3,10,13, 21
2:21 3:111,5,7
3:9 4:11115
5:4 7:17122124
10:4123 11:417
11:24 12:21
13:12 15:12115
15:21123 16:4
16:6,9112118
17:5,11,17
18:7125 19:22
19:23 20:416
20:20,22 21:2
21:8,11,15,17
21:20,24 22:2
22:41719112115
22:20,23 23:17
23:23 24:6125
2 5 : 7113,17, 24
26:4,5 33:3,6
33:10,11,12,15
34:6116121125
3 5 : 3, 6,10,16
35:22 36:21618
36:12113117120
36:20,22,24,25
37: 2,9,13 38: 5
38:7110114118
38:23 39:51718
39:10,16 40:8
40:10,17 45:21
45:25 46:3,9
46:21 50:5
54:9110,11,13
54:19 55:6112
56:11117119122
57:21619117121
58:119112117
58:20,25 59:2
59:518112116
59:18,24 60:3
60:7111112113
60:19123 61:2
61: 5, 6,10,14
61:17122124124
62:1,3,6,21
63:319114119
63:20 64:5
65:5 66:10,14
66:16124 67:4
67:7113 68:6
68:10,24 69:3
69 : 8,10,14,18
69:23,24 70:7
70:9111115,19
70:21124 71:2
71: 5, 6, 7, 9,10
71:13,21 72:1
72:8,11,20,24
7 3 : 2, 5, 8,12,16
73:19120,24
75:24 76:11114
76 :15,17,19, 25
77:41719
mayor's 17:19
mean 8:10 10:7
10:11 12:20
16:19 17:18
20:25 21:10
22:24 23:1
30:1 31:14
44:11113,18
49:7 50:12
53:12
meaning 64:12
means 7:4,4
11:16 14:4
17:8 42:20
56:2 70:15
meant 25:16.19
meet 4:9
meeting 2:4,7
5:3 11:13
20 : 20 22 : 2,18
24:13 31:6
33:21 35:17
37:10 40:11114
41:24 45:1
46:3 47:2114
47:15 50:17
63:15,16 68:12
68:13 77:1
meetings 22:4
65:12
member 1:14115
1:15 2:9111122
2:24 3:3 4:12
7:11113,15,16
7:20,23 10:3
20:7123 21:5
21:10,12,16,19
21:22 22:116,8
2 2 :10,14,19, 21
22:23,24 23:14
23:16118,24
24:5,7,8 25:12
26: 2,3,4,5,8,15
26:22125 27:2
27:6111116120
27 : 24 28 :13,16
28:20,23 29:7
29:21 30:7115
30:23 31:21
32:6118 33:418
33:13 34:3,9
34:13,18 35:2
3 5 : 4, 8,12,18
35:24 36:417
36:10,15,18
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
37:5,11 38:6,8
38:11116120
39:3112115,17
40:7118 41:3
41:22 42:3,10
43:3114123
44:17 45:9123
46 :1, 5, 7,10,16
46:17124 47:4
47:18,23 48:2
50:6111113
51:17119 52:12
52:14123 53:23
54:18 55:5,10
56:9121 57:117
57:11113,15,19
57 : 22 58 :10,14
58:18,23 59:1
59 : 3, 6,10,13
59:19 60:519
60:15,22,25
61: 2, 6, 8110,11
61:12116118,19
61:23 63:25
64:7 65:216
66:617112118
67:2110,11
68:2119121
69:9 70:10,14
70:20,22 71:18
71:24 72:21122
73:14115,17,18
74:6110,17,21
74: 24 75 : 8,15
75:25 76:3
memory 9:15
mentioned 8:13
25:20 41:16
merit 13:11
merits 19:13
met6:22 11:10
middle45:23
46:1
mind 10:5 12:13
13
minute 23:21
37:13,13 39:15
59:19 69:25
minutes 16:20
55:24 66:23
missing 21:1
moment 8: 6
money 29:23,24
31:2111 45:14
49:4121 51:3,7
51:14125 52:2
53:4116 54:5
54:19 57:25
66:9
monies 29:14
51:12
month 19:3
months 14:17
16:10,20
morning 8:7
63:13 66:2
motion 45 :11,12
46: 8,18,22
move 18:18
28:24 30:6
35:24 38:9
39 : 3,4,12,16
39:17
mutual49:17
N
name 3:10.13
9:8 27:20 30:3
31:16120 34:23
43:2 44:16
51:1 69:7116
69:21 74:16119
75:11123
narrowly 4:17
need 3:20 4:1
5:8,12 26:8
29:13 33:2
42:7117 44:6
46:13 50:16121
58:5 62:11
65:10 66:2119
67:10 68:21
72:5
needed 11:17
negotiate 14:20
20:3
negotiated 14:3
14:5 20:17
21:12
negotiating
15:4
negotiation
6:18 7:6 14:21
15:6
negotiations
4:2,3,19 5:11
7:10 14:2
19:24 48:19
54:24125 55:22
56:12113
never 6: 24 45:4
45:4
new 14:17
newspaper
14:12
nice 23:23 24:6
24:23
night 24:23
nil 65:23
Nine7:15,17
Nineteenth 3:21
Notary 78:9
notes 5:16 70: 3
78:13
notice 11:111
13:25 16:17
17:12 30:9
31:19 39:23
40:20,20,23
41:417110
42:16117 48:8
48:9 49:20
57:3
notices 41:11
notified 11:9
40:414112
41:18
notify 11:5 31:8
40:1,8 62:20
73:25 76:10
notifying 47:11
O
object 46: 9
objection 11:22
observed 28:6
obvious 31:24
obviously 3:13
4:24 5:23
35:25 40:4
occurred 45:15
offering 69:20
oh 3:1 7:16 17:7
57:13
okay 2 :12,13
3:1111 4:15
7:20123,25
10:4123 11:24
13:12 16:9
17:11 18:25
19:16121 20:4
20:6 21:22
22:718 26:4122
26:25 27:214,5
27:24 28:23
29:9121 30:23
32:18 35:24
36:4120 37:2
37:23 39:17
40:17 41:3,3,8
41:10 42:3,11
44:17 46:24
47:8,18 54:13
57:6121 58:9
58:12 60:13,19
61:6110,17
62:3,21 63:18
63:19 65:8
66:18 69:10
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
70:9112 72:8
72:11124 73:24
76:15
old 11:25
once 17:21 21:3
47:20 68:15
76:8
one -page 16:18
open 54:1 63:22
opens 30:23
opinion 9:4
19:11 21:6
35:20 38:3,4
53:7 56:24
65:18125
opportunity
10:8 12:3,13
14:19 18:4
20:2 21:23
52:19 76:5
option 50:23,23
62:24125
options 62:23
62:23
order 2:4 12:17
18:1114116121
18:23 32:17
42:8,8
ordered 39:21
ordering 18:2
organizations
23:10,11
outset 52:11
outside 3: 8,15
4:25 6:2 14:2
15:25 33:24
35:17 37:3
overall 17:6
owe 31: 3,15
owed 29:15
31:3
owing 31:13
51:12
owner 10:24
14
11:19 20:12114
29:2 31:23
32:7 40:212119
40:25 41:13
48:4125 49:9
49:11117119120
P
P 3:24
p.m 1:7,7 77:13
page 6:15 7:14
7:16122 28:3
40:21
paid 32:15
50:16 51:2
Pamela 1:15
2:24
panel 17:2,4
43:22 52:20
75:14
papa 3:24
paper 16:21
parcel 53:6
Parris 1:15 2:24
2:24 7:15 20:7
20:23 21:5,10
21:12116119122
22 :1,6,8,10,14
22:19121 23:14
24:5,7 25:12
34:9 46:16
60:5 61:10,11
61:18,19,23
64:7 67:10
72:21 73:15
part 13:19 14:5
47:14
partial 14:5
participate
10:25 11:20,20
41:14117120
42 : 5, 7,12,13
43:618116 44:9
48:7
particular 18:23
33:21
parties 6:17
11:14 14:3
21:13 45:15
48:14 52:13,16
party 10:12,12
18:17 30:4
42:8
passive 28:14
28:17120,21
Paul 1:16 2:15
2:17 74:10
PAUSE 6:12
pay 12 :12,14,17
13:19120 14:23
30:12 32:17
35:20 39:21
51:8,9 53:22
Pelican 1:4 3:23
8:9116119 9:18
11:9123 13:1
14:8 15:2 18:1
18:2115 19:25
30:14 32:13,17
33:22 34:22
38:25 40:24
41:19
pendency 11:10
pending 3:21
51:13
people 4:13
6:24 14:8 23:6
24:9 53:14
70:4
percent 42 : 2
period 5:18
18:24 55:9
56:7112 70:8
70:13 71:41516
permit 49:16
person 14:11
personal21:6
personally
15:23 57:24
pertaining 4:2
7:6
Peterson 34:23
petition 16:16
18:4 30:5
petitions 18:5
Phonetic 38:18
phrase 5:2
37:23
pick 12:4,9,10
44:18 45:19
54:25 62:24
picks 12:6
piece 22:11
pipe 66:1
place 33:21
plaintiff 14:14
please 3:6 33: 5
33:10 63:21
65:5 67:16
69:114 72:2
74:14
point 12:15,16
22:2 25:22
44:8119 47:616
47:24 64:4
65:20 68:1
72:5 73:22
points 8:13
political 55:3
portion 41: 5
position 15:1,6
29:19 45:5
58:7 65:17
possibility 50:9
possible 9:7
31:8 43:20
50:6 65:11112
possibly 12:5
14:25
posture 31:17
potential 9:17
11:17 52:24
56:8
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
pray 23:6
prefaced 37:21
prefer 47 : 2,24
prejudice41:6
prejudiced
40:19 64:16
prepare 46: 8,18
president 11:11
pressure 15:24
16:1
Pretty 39:7
prevailed 65:19
prevailing 65:23
prevent 51:14
prevents 30:2
previously 4: 5
prima 17:25
print 16:19
prior 10:23,23
privately 4:10
privilege 77:8
PRM 20:24
probably 10:17
17:8 31:12113
68:8
problem 23:24
23:24 30:4
procedural
14:10 15:16
28:5111 35:5
procedurally
30:5
p roced u re 2 : 7
17:20
proceed 8:8
26:16117 29:8
29:11 31:22
39:25 54:6
57:3
proceeding 6:19
11:10 48:20
proceedings
78:11
process 15:10
15
15:11 20:19
22:3 27:14
28:5,11 38:24
42:21 55:7
56:14
processor16:19
progress 22:22
prolonged 22:3
prolonging
20:19
promises 53:21
Promptly 39:23
properly 11:1
41:11 42:15
48:8 53:25
property 20:11
24:20,20 29:1
32:10 51:23
53:14115
proposed 54:23
protect 8: 25 9:9
prove 53:1
provide 13:3
62:23
provided 41:4
provides 4: 8
provision 10:17
10:19 51:3
provisions
50:22
public 5:1,8,22
22:15,18 63:15
64:4 68:13
71:14 78:9
purpose 5:10
pursuant4:6
8:14119 11:7
39:21
pursue4:7 8:22
9:1 17:4 29:10
42:25 43:5
44:15 46:12
50:10 52:1
69:16 75:213
pursued 43:1
pursues 9:25
put 12:1 13:23
14:12112 29:24
31:2115 37:16
45:14117 49:4
51:3,7,14 52:2
52:6 54:5,19
57:4123125
putting 31:11
62:14
Q
question 8:1
10:5 11:19
17:16 18:22
19:15,23 28:22
29:22 33:5
35: 23 36:10,12
36:14119 37:2
37 : 7, 7,14, 20
38:12 47:7
51:18 52:3
54:8 57:13
58:21 62:8,9
62:10 63:25
64:2 66:6
68:10 72:24
73:21618
questions 9:23
10:3 26:9 27:3
38:23,24 54:11
62:6
quick 7:11 58:4
71:17
quickly 19:18
quite 14:16 17:3
20:18
quoted 7:14
R
raised 15:17
raising 70:22
rare 30:21
re -annex 14:18
read 3:12 6:16
6:16 7:18 11:8
24:13 40:22124
52:10
Reading 6:17
20:10 28:25
32:19 39:19
41:4112 48:416
48:14119124
49:6111
real 7:11 60:20
really 8:24 9:13
10:14119 18:21
19:14 24:5
25:25 44:12
47:16 51:3
53:21 58:4
71:17 75:12
76:9
reason 9:20
20:8 26:1 49:3
50:24
reasonable 5:17
13:2 32:21
48:13 61:20
reasonably
48:10124
recall 9:15
recap 8:4
receive 19:6
received 8:8
11:1 31:6
50:17 64:20
receiving 39:23
42:15,15 48:8
recommend
73:9111112
74:22124 75:9
recommendat...
75:1
reconvene
11:17
record 3:13 15:8
35:12 69:2,3
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
71:14 76:17119
76:20,22,24,25
78:12
referring 6:13
reflect 3 5: 12
rehash 6:10,10
reimburse 10:8
12:5 13:3 32:3
32:15,16
reimbursement
13:7 49:2,5
55:25
reimbursing
55:9
related 2:5 4:20
5:11 32:9
34:10,11 38:24
38: 25 53 :11,14
release 30:17
relief 13:7
relieve 40 : 2
remain 46:13
remember
16:14 41:24
remind 4:17
reminding
44:15
remote 53:20
render 19:11.13
rendered 4 1: 1
49:13
renotify 40: 25
repeat 5:1,3 8:1
52:12114
repeating 56:9
reply 18:5
report 78:11
reporter 2:15
5:16 60:21
78:19
reporter's 60:17
represent 11:13
11:21 26:12
29:8 46:14
M
representative
11:12
representing
26:18,21 48:12
65:17
request 31:1
33:20
require 51:16
53:7
requirements
27:14 28:6111
requires 18:23
requisite 31:9
reserve 54:9
respect 38:13
49:18 63:11
respond 18:18
response 25:4
33:16116 58:1
responsibility
8:20
responsible
8:15 30:11
41:5 55:8
rest 67:10
resulting 41:6
retained 8:11
reversal 17:25
revert 54:9
review 27 : 7,19
27 : 23 28 :4,10
30:21122
rewritten 20:17
ridiculous 23:8
right2:3,13 3:9
12:11 14:18122
16:1118 19:5
19:22 20:4
21:8 22:6 23:5
23:19 24:10125
25:12 29:18
31:21 32:12
34:2123 35:9
3 5 :13,15,16, 21
35:22 37:1125
38:15 39:12118
40:5,20 41:23
43:8,10,21,23
45:2 47:7 48:2
48:21 56:17122
57:1 59:14
61:8 62:15
65:6 66:23,25
68:17 69:11112
73:4 74:219
75:3 76:11
77:4
rights 35:14
44:15 75:22
risk 20:13 29: 3
31:25
risks 31:24
River 3: 22 78: 2
road 30:18
65:21 66:1
room 4:25,25
13:24 16:4
roughly 17:6
round 29:24
route 32:10
rude6:5
rule 18:16.22
37:8,9
run 14:17
running 37:9
S
safe 30:25
sake 60:17
satisfactory
48:10
saying 6:24
15:15 17:17
19:23 21:8,11
24:8 29:11122
37:15121 44:19
44:20,21 51:15
55:2113,13,18
57:9112 58:12
58:13,14 61:25
70:1125 71:2,3
says 10:24
28:24 31:23
32:6 33:20
34:13,17 38:8
38:12 48:3
52:16 61:6
62:23 69:23
scariest 53:10
screen 3:11
screens 58:20
script 3:12
sealed 1:6 5:19
Sebastian 1:111
1:4110 2:1,5,18
3:24 23:3125
24 :1,19, 20
26:12 33:23
39:2 55:21123
second 4:4
27:11 53:1
58:7 72:3
second -tier
16:17 19:7
27:18 28:9
secondary
47:10
secondly 9:6
Section 6:14
39:21
see 2 : 3 17 :11, 24
20:719116116
20:19 22:22
28:2 34:5
44:14 45:2
52:2 53:13
61:19
seek 19:7 30:22
seen 19:15
send 10:15 51:8
62:16 64:11
sense 22:25
sent 8:9
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
sentence 11:8
11:15,15,16
40:23,25 41:2
42:20120 47:8
47:9 52:10,15
separate 10:11
49:18
Serota 3:16
served 3:16
40:24
session 1:3 4:5
4:7112114115
4:16 5:9110,18
5:21 6:23 7:1
8:5,7 9:14,17
9:21 33:17118
33:19 34:20
47:14 52:11
63:17122 67:22
75:19 76:12
set 33:18,19,23
59:14
sets 13:17
settle 15:2
19:25 20:1
21:313 49:11
settlement 4: 2
4:19 5:11 6:19
7:7110 13:20
14:416120,21
20:3 48:20
49:16 64:6
68:14
shade 2:4 4:13
Shakes 21:15
shortly 11:8
show 18:1.14.17
18:21 19:13
sic 29:2 39:1
side 29:17 46:13
sign 23:9,10,12
54:3
simple 14:24
39:7 59:16118
17
simplist 13:23
simply 14:16
69:21
sir7:12.19 11:3
25:2119 26:3,7
26:14120124
27:1 29:6
30:22 35:19
41:21 52:16
59:22 61:4
63:10 64:8
65:4 66:15,23
67:5 68:22123
68:23,23 69:1
69:4112119
71:20 72:3
73:7122 76:24
77:12
sit 14:20 23:13
65:10
sitting 23:20
situation 13:16
37:17
smart 63: 3
smoke 58:20
Society 1:4 3:23
33:22 39:1
solicit 9: 3
solution 13:22
13:23
solve 19:25
somebody 44: 6
64:22
someplace
38:19
soon 9:6 31:8
43:20 65:12
sooner 63 :15,21
sorry 2:10 16:8
16:13 19:14
25:3 28:15
40:6 60:23
61:22 64:18
sort 8:10 18:16
30:22 53:5
sought 39:25
sound 29:17
sounds 14:13
sovereign 53:12
speak8:6 11:18
30:5 67:17
69:25
Special 1:17
specifically 4:1
6:12 33:20,23
37:21
spoke 6:7
SS 78:1
staff 22: 5
standard 18:16
27 : 7,8,16,18
27:23 28:4
start2:14 10:5
15:6111 21:19
21:21125 22:3
27:6 66:3123
66 : 24 67 : 7,13
76:10,12
started 14 :19
starting 8:10
55:8
State 78:1,9
statement 23:4
23:15 54:16
Statute 4: 7
Statutes 39:22
statutory 4:17
6:2
stay 6: 5 33:10
37:18
stenographic
78:13
stenographic...
78:11
step 8:4 58:4
stepping 38:14
stipulations
59:15,21
stop 55:20,22
56:7 72:24
straightforwa...
54:14
strategically
42:22
strategies 5:11
strategy4:2,20
straw 56: 23
STREET 1:10
studies 20:24.25
20:25
stuff 12:1 38:1
55:17
subject 28:10
45:22 49:1
60:10
submit 18:2
subsection 4:8
substantial 28:8
substantive
16:21124 17:1
17:21 18:3
successful9:5
sue 10:12120
12:22123 52:4
52:5,7 53:21
53:22 59:20
suggest 31:17
64:25
suggested 9:6
31:7 42:23
53:19
suggesting
42:22 69:15
suing 14:9
suit 2:6 12:14
13:19 14:3,8
15:17 49:5
suits 32:8
sum 71:17
sums 49:20
Sunshine4:9,22
34:112 35:6
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
37:4 38:3,14
38:21 40:16
65:15 77:2110
supported 28:7
supposed 47:13
Supreme 30:19
49:23 51:21
sure 2:17 6:22
8:22 9:22
10:18 11:16
13:6110 15:19
15:23 18:14
19:18 20:7
25:112,5 28:2
31:14122 37:17
42:19 43:4115
44:12 47:24
50:7 51:22
53:24 64:12
surrounding
24:21
system 29:25
T
table 3:11 23:6
23:20 57:23
65:1
take 5 :14,16
6:11 19:11115
21: 6,9 42 :4,13
43:25,25 45:5
45:18 49:23
54:20 56:6
58:4 68:9 74:2
74:8
taken 5:3,8
51:23
takes 16:19
talk 6:4 7:1
23:17117121
33:18,25 34:2
35:7 36:41719
62:11 63:6
77:6
talked 17:12
talking 25:3
40:20 47:15
60:18 62:12
75:7 76:2
77:11
target 33:6,7,7
33:10
task 8 :11,12
taxpayers 48 :17
50:2
technically
16:16
tell 18:11 44:8
50 : 24 55 :16,16
59:14 75:19
telling 35:22
44:12114 59:14
tending 6:2
tenor 9:11
term 4:11.14
6:14
terminated
76:12116
terms 9:4.24.24
12:24 18:19
30:11 31:11113
43:12121 51:2
51:13 52:5
Thank 3:7 8:3
26:3,5 46:7
theirs 54:16
theoretically
10:20 30:20
theory 20:12
29:2
They'd 48:13
thing 6:11,12
7:2113 12:21
14:10,14 15:5
15:8 23:1
24:11112 28:10
53:24 62:11125
63:12 66:2
71:17
things 8:24 9:12
13:15 14:9
19:19 21:1
28:10 50:24
53:19 62:14
64:25
think 6:13 8:13
9:11120 10:14
10:17 12:25,25
13:8,22 14:23
14:24 17:15,18
17:19 19:2
22:25 23:8
24:18,18 25: 25
26:20 27:1122
27:22 29:15
30:5,10 31:12
31:14 32:111
38:11112 42:20
42:21 43:19
44:416,8,23
46:13,14 50:16
50:18 51:7123
52:8,9,18,25
53:21418117118
61:20 62:15,21
62:21 63:3
64 : 24 65 : 7,17
65:24 66:4,5
68:7 71:12116
72:3,20 73:22
75:17
third 10:6 28:9
41:12
third -party
39:22124 40:1
40:7 41:12
49:12
third -tier 30:20
thought 9: 3,9
16:416 45:24
46:2 54:7 65:4
72:14119 73:7
75:117 76:1
77:5
thoughts 35:25
36:2 46:6 47:4
50:20
threat20:16
three 8:13 9:12
16:10,20 21:13
24:17 37:5
44:25 45:12
70:2,3,4
throw 23: 5
thumb 18:16
tier 27:12
time2:3 3:12
5:4124 6:117122
8:21 17:13,16
17:17118,19
18:7115,18,24
19:15 20:3
24:15 25:21
31:9118 32:2
36:11 40:10
49:15 54:9112
55:25 56:1
58:3,3,5 60:16
60:17 65:8
66:16125 67:15
67:20 68:1
72:5,23 73:22
times 5:2
title 51:23
today 3:19 4:11
4:20 5:17 6:6
6:11113 9:21
12:11 76:9
tomorrow 55:8
63:7112 66:2
tonight 63:12
65:11 68:12
top 10:6
totally 70:24
traffic 20: 24
train 16:4,6
transcribe 5:17
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
transcript 78:12
transcription
5:21
triggered 40:23
triggering 51:3
trouble 16:16
true 23:14 43: 7
59:22 69:22
78:12
try4:19 6:3
14:3 19:25,25
20:3 24:22
37:17 50:9125
trying 6:4,5,5
43:4 54:22
55:14114 59:23
68:7 72:9
two 8:24 9:2
55:1 62:22
63:3 64:25
65:13
two-bit 23:19
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Uh-huh 46:16
ultimately 13:10
40:15 71:11
umm 2:9,11
17:7
understand
12:1 15:12113
15:13,21 21:7
25:15 28:22
63:112,5 64:8
72:1,3,14
use 12:15 20:2
41:21 48:13
53:6111114
usually 18:17
19:10
V
v1:4 39:1
valid 10:14
VERBAL 25:4
verify 29:19
vice 1:14 2:21
2:21 16:416
19:23 20:4119
22:1 36:13,17
36:20,22,25
37:13 39:7116
46:9 54:11
56:17 59:16
60:12 61:5,24
62:1 63:19
65:5 66:16
69:14 70:7119
71:21619 73:20
75:24 76:14117
77:4,7
Video 1:15,17
view 65:21
violate 35:4
38:2121 40:16
violating 65:15
violation 4:21
33:25 34:117
35:6114 37:4
38:9115 52:10
77:3
virus 19:18
voice 70: 23
voluntarily
15:11
voluntary 15:9
vote 5:2,5 22:18
25:9113,14
26:11111 56:23
56:24 59:17
61:21 70:6
74:4,5
voted 70:4
71:14
voters 71:14
votes 5 : 517 7 : 6
37:5 61:3 70:2
voting 61:4,14
71:21124
W
wait 14:17
39:15 46:2
59:19 60:8,8,8
60:8 62:15
67:25 69:25
70:11111
walk 56:2 62:25
72:6
wanna 43:14
54:2
want 5:14.23
6:9112 7:217
8:1 9:3 12:3
13:4 15:7119
15:20 16:25
23:25 24:1118
24:22 25:8
26:9 27:2 29:8
31:22 33:1113
33:14 34:4118
37:16 38:19125
42:4 43:4,5,15
43 : 24 44 :10,18
44:25 45:6
47:51919121
48:16 49:23
50:14115,15,16
50:20,24 52:1
53:15 54:8
55 :1, 3,17,18
57:22124 58:5
58:7 64:14114
65:14 66:8,21
69:9116125
70:17125,25
71:1, 3,11,14
71:18 72:18
73:5,9 74:7
75:4110115122
76:14119
wanted 6:21
8:21 14:13
16:24 25:19
44:6 52:21
61:18 66:7
wants 21:4
26:17 62:18
68:20,22
ward 30:13
wasn't 6: 25
25:20
wassails 58:21
way 11:8 18:5
26:10 29:12
32:9 40:22
45:20 49:22
51:6111 55:14
55:20,22 56:7
56:13,15 64:15
we'll 2:6,12
4:19 36:23
38:9 42:10,16
54:3,3,4 58:6
68:16 77:6
we're 5:5,6,6,12
6:4 12:11
13:16 14:18,22
15:20 21:8
23:5,9 25:2,5
26:11 29:11112
33:3,21,23
34:17 35:1
36:25 42:11
44:20,20 45:1
47:1115,24
49:4 52:1
58:14114 59:7
59:23 60:18
61:4 62:9112
64:12 65:9
66:10 67:7111
67:13,17,21,23
67:24 68:3,4,4
68:617 69:2,3,8
69:8 72:13,17
73:22 75:19120
76:8,12,15
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
77:11112112
we've 29: 23
44:4 60:16120
72:12
week6:8 17:1
19:8 47:1
weigh 34:19
Weiss 3:16
welcome 45:18
weren't 53: 3
whatever's
29:16
whatsoever
32:24 34:15
willing 48:16
52:1 54:1
win 12:7.24
22:25
withstanding
75:21
witnesses 32:22
won 53:1,2
word 16 :15,19
25:13
words 28:18
work 17:3,9
18:6
works 14:12
57:18119
worrying 77:9
wouldn't 23:12
52:2
writ 18:5
write 45 :11,12
writing 41:23
written 10:25
48:7
wrong 9:11
14:11112115
17:23 18:3
20:23 24:19
55:11
wrote 9:12
X
20
X 57:4
Y
ya 24:23,23
yea 24:23,23
yeah 3 : 3 7 : 24
16:12 22:24
37:11 43:14
51:19 55:5
56:25 57:19
64:7 69:12
70:20
yes -subject -to
60:13
yesterday 7:19
Z
zoning 53:6
Zoom 1:15117
3:2 64:18
0
08/08/2023
78:20
1
1 28:3 65:15
10,000 17:8
100 42:2
1225 1:10
12TH 78:14
13 6:14
142 3:25
15 66:23
164 32:25 33:1
34:15 38:2124
39:18
170 39:18
171.081 39:22
1840:21
19A 3:24
19AP 142 1: 5
2
2 65:15
200,000 51:23
20201:7 2:1
78:14
221:7 2:1 10:6
286.0114:8
3
30 17:9 18:12
18:17 19:3,4
62:16 64:1,3,9
67:25
30th 19:6
32958 1:10
35,000 29:15
364132 78:20
4
40 17:9
400-dollar
12:22
5
5:09 1:7 2:3
50 17:9
6
6:15 67:3
6:18 67:4
6:20 67:213
6:241:7 76:11
77:13
6:30 67:7
7
70- 45:17
8
84:8
80,000 29:17
45:18
9
9 6:15 7:16122
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
City of Sebastian EVA G E H R I N G GROUP"
Employee Benefits Executive Cost Summary
Effective Date: October 1, 2020 EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
Current Ne¢Dtiated Renewal
Medical
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
ER%
Employee
Employee Only
64
$586.37
$561.37
$25.00
$560.87
$536.31 $535,87
96%
$24,56 $25.00
Employee+Spouse
15
$1,358.21
$1,039.29
5318.92
$1,299.07
$994.04
77%
$305.03
Employee+ Child(ren)
15
$1,050.05
$850.19
$199.86
$1,047.99
$848.52
81%
$199.46
Employee + Family
22
$1,780.51
$1,298.17
$482.34
$1,746.64
$1,273.47
73%
$473.17
Annual Premium
$1,353,874
$1,113,955
$239,918
$1,314,330
$1,079,743
$234,587
$Increase/(Decrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
-$39,543
-$34,212
-$5,331
%Increase/lDecrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
-2.9%
.3.1%
-2.2%
Health Reimbursement Account
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
Employee
Employee Only
64
$2,500.00
$2,500.00
$0.00
$2,500.00
$2,500.00
100%
$0.w
Employee + Spouse
15
$5,000.00
$5,000.00
$0.00
$5,000.o0
$5,000.00
100%
$0.00
Employee + Child(ren)
15
$5,000.00
$5,000.00
$0.00
$5,000.00
$5,".00
100%
$0.00
Employee +Family
22
$5,000.00
$5,000.w
$0.00
$S,000.00
$5,000.o0
300%
$0.00
Annual Funding
$420,000
$420,0011
$0
$410,000
$420,=
$0
Dental - Base Plan
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
ER%
Employee
Employee Only
56
$29.59
$29.59
Moo
$32.22
$32.22
300%
$0.00
Employee + Spouse
22
$59.72
$46.64
$1S.08
$65.04
$48.62
75%
$16.42
Employee + Child(ren)
18
$82.03
$55.81
$26.22
$89.33
$60.78
68%
$29.55
Employee +Family
16
$112.17
$70.89
$41.28
$122.15
$77.20
63%
$44.95
Annual Premium
$74,906
$57,335
$17,570
$81,570
$62,438
$19,132
$Increase/lDecrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
$6,665
$5,103
$1,562
%Increase/(Decrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
8.9%
8.9%
a.9%
Dental - Buy Up Plan
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
ER%
Employee
Employee Only
7
$35.87
$29.59
$6.28
$39.06
$32.22
82%
$6.84
Employee+Spouse
11
$72.40
$44.64
$27.76
$78.84
$48.62
62%
$30.22
Employee+ Child(ren)
5
$99.44
$55.81
$43.63
$108.29
$60.78
56%
$47.51
Employee + Family
2
$135.97
$70.89
$65.08
$14807
$77.20
52%
$70.87
Annual Premium
$21,8D0
$13,429
$8,972
$73,739
$14,624
$9,115
$Increase/(Decreare)
N/A
N/A
N/A
$1,939
$2,195
$7U
%Increase/(Decrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
9.9%
8.9%
8.9%
Vision
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
ER%
Employee
Employee
68
$3.78
$3.79
$0.00
$3.78
$3.78
100%
$0.00
Family
71
$11.30
$7.54
$3.76
$11,30
$7.54
67%
$3.76
Annual Premium
$12,712
$9,509
$3,2D1
$12,712
$9,509
$3,204
Basic Life and AD&D
Total
Employer
Employee
Toni
Employer
ER%
Employee
Total Pate/$1,000
$0.180
$0.180
$0.0no
$0.225
$0.225
100%
$0.000
Estimated Volume
$2,058,000
$2,058,000
Annual Premium
$4,445
$4,445
$0
$5,557
$5,557
$0
$Increase/(Decrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
$2,121
$1,111
$0
%Increase/(Decrease)
N/A
N/A
N/A
25.0%
25.0%
0.0%
Long Term Disability
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
ER%
Employee
Total Rate/$300
$0.30
$0.30
$0.00
$0.30
$0.30
300%
$0.00
Estimated Volume
$362,949
$362,949
Annual Premium
$13,066
$13,066
90
$13,066
$13,066
$o
Employee Assistance Program
Total
Employer
Employee
Total
Employer
ER %
Employee
Rate PEPM
116
$1.32
$1.32
$0.00
$1.32
$1.32
300%
$0.00
Annual Premium
$LB37
$1,07
$0
$1,07
$1,937
$0
Combined Annual Premlumlll $1,902,640 $1,633,576 $269,064 $1,866,912 $1,600,774 $266,038
Combined$ Increase/IOecrease) N/A N/A N/A-$35,828-$32,802-$3,026
Combined%Increase/(Decrease) N/A N/A N/A 1 -1.9% -2.0% -1.1%
uCombined Annual Total and Emulover Premiums include 56.000 Dental Premium Credit
Employee Benefits
October 1, 2020 Renewal
SE
HOME OF PELICAN ISLAND
Presented By:
riwo
GEHRING GROUP
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
Items for Discussion:
1. Employee Benefit Program Summary
2. Industry Overview
3. 2020-2021 Renewal Process
4. Recommendation of Renewal
5. Questions
C GEHRING GROUP
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
Employee Benefit Program Summary
• Medical Insurance
— Currently with Florida Blue
High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP)
o $1,500
Employee
Only / $3,000
Family Deductible
o $4,500
Employee
Only / $9,000
Family Out of Pocket Max
• City funded Health Reimbursement Account
— City funds $2,500 for Employee Only / $5,000 for Family Coverage
• Dental and Vision Insurance
— Currently with Humana
• Life, Long Term Disability, and Employee Assistance Program
— Currently with Lincoln Financial Group
rZ GEHRING GROUP
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
Industry Overview
• Cadillac Tax repealed December 20, 2019 — Further Consolidated
Appropriations Act, 2020
• ACA — Patient Centered Research Institute Fee $2.54 per member/year for
2020-21 Plan Year (was $2.45 last plan year)
• ACA — Health Insurer Fee was suspended for 2019 calendar year.
Reinstated for 2020
and
then
fully repealed for 2021 and beyond. Fee is
built into premiums
and
adds
3% to 4% to costs.
• 2020 Medical inflation at 6%-8% increase and Prescription Inflation at
C GEHRING GROUP EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
2020m2021 Renewal Process
• Medical Insurance:
— Florida Blue initially proposed 3.0% increase with no plan changes
— Gehring Group (GG) negotiated to 2.9% decrease with no plan changes
• Dental Insurance:
— Humana proposed 8.9% increase on Base and Buy -Up plans with no
plan changes
— GG negotiated a premium credit of $6,000 which results in a net
increase of 2.7%
• Vision Insurance:
— Humana proposed 0% increase with no plan changes
• Life, Long Term Disability, and Employee Assistance Program
— Lincoln proposed 25% increase to Basic Life rates ($1,111) and no
increase to Voluntary Life, LTD or EAP with no plan changes
C GEHRING GROUP
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
2020=2021 Recommendation
• Accept Florida Blue's medical renewal at 2.9% overall decrease
— Guaranteed for 12 months
• No change to Health Reimbursement Account funding
• Accept Humana's dental renewal at 8.9% overall increase with the
$6,000 premium credit
— Guaranteed for 12 months
• Accept Humana's vision renewal of 0% increase to rates
— Guaranteed for 12 months
• Accept Lincoln's renewal of 25% increase on Basic Life and 0% on all
other lines of coverage
— Guaranteed for 12 months
• 2.0% overall decrease to City and 1.0% decrease to Employees
C GEHRING GROUP
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
Questions?
C GEHRING GROUP
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS I RISK MANAGEMENT
2021 Budget and Capital Program
Presentation on Draft 2021 Budget
And Recommendation on Proposed Millage
Prepared By:
Ken Killgore
Administrative Services Director/CFO
1
2021 Budget and Capital Program
oChanges to General Fund Budgets.
o Changes to General Fund Revenues.
o Enterprise and Other Funds.
o Other Considerations and Proposed
Millage Recommendation.
Z
General Fund Personnel
Additions/Deletions
o No Full-time Additions
o No Full-time Deletions
o No Part-time Additions
o Part-time Deletions:
Leisure Services - Asst. Recreation Supervisor
Leisure Services — Maintenance Worker
3
Draft FY2021 General Fund Budget
Versus Current FY2020 Budget
$ (11,,060) Personnel Costs
(161,429) Operating Expenses
(125,228) Capital Spending
(4,691) Transfers to Other Funds
$ (302,408) Decrease in Budget
B!
Personnel Down $11,060
o Zero Provided for Pay Increases.
o Health Insurance Premiums Down 3%.
o No Increase in Full -Time Employees.
o Decrease of 2 Part-time Employees.
o $37,600 Provided for Retirement Payout.
o $51,632 Provided for Added Responsibilities.
o Zero Funding for Holiday Bonus or Incentives.
What's Included? —
Revenue Assumptions
o Franchise Fees and Utility Taxes Looking to be
Equal
to
2019 This
Year.
Assuming Collections
Improve
and 4.5%
More
is Received
for 2021.
o State Revenues - % Cent is 35% Less than Same
Month in Prior Year (April). Assuming This
Improves and 4.5% More Received for 2021.
o Assumed $50K Reimbursement for COVID-19.
0 33% Property Tax, 11% Franchise Fees, 18%
Utility Taxes and 18% State Revenues Equal 80%
of Total Revenues.
11
Enterprise Funds:
Golf Course
o Assuming 4.5% More Revenue than 2020.
o $30,000 for Restaurant Lease.
o $106,135 for Airport Rent.
o Paying $38,366 Principal and Interest on
$700,000 Building Fund Loan.
o Paying $35,000 Toward General Fund Loans.
o Forecasting Long-term Reduction in Deficit.
Enterprise Funds:
Airport
o Added Revenue from Property Rentals.
o Covering Personnel and Operational Cost.
o Paying off $150,000 General Fund Loan.
o Paying Scheduled Amortization of Loans from
Discretionary Sales Taxes.
o DST Funds for Matching Requirements on
Grants
for
a
Taxi
Lane and
to
Establish
Sewer
Service
on
West
Side
of
Airport.
Enterprise Funds:
Building
o Budgeting Minor Decrease in Revenues.
o Adding Administrative Assistant.
o Covering Personnel and Operational Cost.
o Making Improvements to Front Counter.
o Expecting $38,368 for Principal and Interest
on Golf Course Loan.
109
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Local Option Gas Tax:
31% Less than Same Month Prior Year (March).
Assuming Collections Improve and Equal 2020.
$400,000 Allocated for Road Resurfacing.
$100,000 Allocated for Sidewalks.
$81,000 Allocated for Roadway Signs.
$176,000 Allocated for Equipment.
$243,340 for Payment on Notes. ($591,000
Outstanding at 9/30/2020. Matures in 2022.
10
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Discretionary Sales Tax:
37% Less in April vs. Same Month Prior Year.
Assuming Collections Better & Up 4.5% 2021.
Allocations to MIS and Police Vehicles.
$500,000 for Road Reconstruction Work.
Harrison St. Plaza/Design of N. Central Plaza.
Tree Protection Plan.
Canal Restoration.
Slip Lining
Economic Development Hangar.
May Defer Projects If Collections Not Adequate.
III
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Riverfront CRA Fund:
4% Increase in Taxable Values.
Landscaping/Parking Improvements and
Repairs at Working Waterfront.
Special Events and Sign Grants.
Expecting No New Sewer Connection Grant
Funds Needed for 2021.
Allocation of CRA Manager Cost.
%2 of Landscaping Contract.
12
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Recreation Impact Fee Fund:
Fully Allocating the Available Collections.
Unspecified Improvements ($5K per Zone).
Additional Park Signage.
r- Completing Barber Street Bleachers.
Playground Improvements (Including All
Inclusive Features).
Future Projects Dependent on Collections.
13
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Stormwater Utility Fund:
Fees Covering Ongoing Personnel and
Operational Cost.
Includes Equipment Replacements.
$100,000 Allocated for Roadway Swales
and Culverts Work.
of Landscaping Contract.
$200,000 Allocated for Developing an
Updated Stormwater Master Plan.
Im
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Law Enforcement Forfeiture Fund:
Used Only for Unbudgeted Items.
Specific Items Need City Council Approval.
Current Balance is $32,700.
o Parking In Lieu Of Fund:
Expecting
$57,835
Year
End
2020 Balance.
$3,000 in
2021 on
Crab
Stop
Agreement.
15
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue/Trust Funds
Cemetery Trust Fund:
%2 of Sales Expendable on Expansions or
Cost Incidental to Adding Future Sites.
oFunding Columbarium Niches.
%2 of Sales on Operations and Maintenance.
oAllocation for Equipment, Driveway
Resurfacing and Grounds Improvements.
oTransferring $85K to General Fund, Then
$90K in Future Years.
16
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Debt Service Funds
o Stormwater Utility Debt Service:
Includes Required Bank Note Payments
Which are Paid by Discretionary Sales Tax.
$782,000 Outstanding as of 9/30/20.
Final Maturity on 5/01/22.
17
Capital Improvement Program
o $27.6 Million Over 6 Years. $5.8 Million
Next Fiscal Year. $23.2 Million Last Year.
o Largest Items for Next Fiscal Year:
$900,000 Street Repaving/Reconstruction.
$200,000 Stormwater Master Plan.
$500,000 Canal Restoration.
$569,264 New Taxi Way at Airport.
$1,000,000 Sewer Services at Airport.
In
Property Values and Millage:
Certified Taxable Values
o Rolled -Back Millage is 2.8091. Budget Assumes
Same 2.9399 as This Year, A 4.66% Increase.
o Total Certified Taxable Property Values
Increased $99,290,047 or 7.18% Above 2020.
Additions Account for $33,685,698 or
2.44% of the Increase.
Reassessments Account for $65,604,349 or
4.74% of the Increase.
o Last Year's Millage of 3.1514 Would Increase
Revenues by $300,917 Over the 2.9399 Millage
Currently Assumed in 2021 Budget Draft.
19
Property Values and Millage:
Taxable Value Additions
Dollar Value of Tax Roll Additions:
2020 33,685,698 2016 25,763,700
2019 23,351,814 2015 25,492,245
2018 15/998/366 2014 19,914,805
2017 35/951/704 2013 9/435/090
Tax Roll Additions Yield $95,071 of Added
Revenue for 2021 at the 2.9399 Millage).
20
Property Values and Millage:
3.1514 Mills Versus 2.9399
1. 0322% On Homestead:
10% On
Others:
2.9399
3.1514
2.9399
3.1514
ASSESSED VALUES
$200,000
$202,064
$200,000
$220,000
TAXABLE VALUES
$150,000
$152,064
$200,000
$220,000
TAXES
$441
$479
$588
$693
CHANGE (8.6% - 17.9%)
..........................................................................................................................................................................................
$38
$105
ASSESSED VALUES
$250,000
$252,581
$250,000
$275,000
TAXABLE VALUES
$200,000
$202,581
$250,000
$275,000
TAXES
$588
$638
$735
$867
CHANGE (8.5% - 18.0%)
...............................................................................................................
$50
--..............--................
$132
ASSESSED VALUES
$300,000
$303,097
$300,000
$330,000
TAXABLE VALUES
$250,000
$253,097
$300,000
$330,000
TAXES
$735
$798
$882
$1,040
CHANGE (8.6% - 17.9%)
$63
$158
21
City of Sebastian
Yearly Millage Setting
L
4.0000 .. -..... ..
Final Less Than e
A L Final Above
Roll -back b e Roll -back s
3.9000 ` y - 5
V 1 v 5
V 5
3.8000 _. e -r - _.--
i
V
3.7000--
I--- i
I ;
3.6000 - -
S
a Final Same
3s000 m as Roll -back
e
3.4000 -' , 7- ,a
V m �.
3.3000 -- - S
a C�i
3.2000 m -
e
i
3.1000
i
Final Less Than Proposed Final Same As Proposed Final Less Than Proposed
2.9000
i
2.8000
2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 1 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 12019 2020
DRolled-Back 3.0519 3.2121 3.3646 3.8038 3.9019 3.7311 3.5646 3.7398 3.5446 3.6290 6700 3.4939�3.1514 02.9399
■ Proposed 3.0519 3.0519 3.3646 3.8038 3.5940 3.3041 3.7166 3.7166 3.8556 3.8556 3.8556 3.8000 3.4000 3.1514
■ Final 3.0519 2.9917 3.3456 3.3456 3.3041 3.3041 3.7166 3.7166 3.8556 3.8556 3.8000 3.4000 3.1514 2.9399�
Other Considerations
o Labor Agreements Negotiations.
o Hurricane Season.
o Legal Settlements.
o Additional Experience of Virus Effect
Revenues — Might Adjust Revenue Estimates.
o Assumed Better Revenues by October 2020.
o Balanced by Optimistic Revenue Estimates,
Cutting Pay Increases, Cutting Operating
Accounts and Funding Capital Items with
Other Funds or Deferring Them to Next Year.
23
Options on Millage
o Levy Rolled -Back Millage of 2.8091— 0%:
Requires $186,240 of Expense Cuts - No Pay
Increases and Reduction in Level of Service.
Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
o Levy Same 2020 Millage of 2.9399 — 4.7 % :
Draft Budget is Balanced With No Reserves.
No Provision for Pay Increases.
o Levy Same 2019 Millage of 3.1514 — 12.2%:
Allows $300,917 Contingency for Less Revenues.
Room for Labor Negotiations/Pay Increases.
Some Cushion for Legal Fees/Settlements.
24
Options on Pay Increases
o 2.0% - $145,471 Added to General Fund:
Requires $145,471 of Expense Cuts and
Reduction in Level of Service.
Or Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
0 2.5% - $183,307 Added to General Fund:
Requires $183,307 of Expenditure Cuts and
Reduction in Level of Service.
Or Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
o 3.0% - $215,024 Added to General Fund:
Requires $215,024 of Expenditure Cuts and
Reduction in Level of Service.
Or Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
25
Concerns Regarding Proposed Millage
o Budget Balanced at 2.9399 — 4.66% Tax
Increase But There Are Concerns:
Projected Revenues May Be Optimistic.
No Room For Labor Negotiations.
No Allowance For Legal Actions.
Further Cuts May Reduce Levels of Service.
o Only Option Will Be Using Reserves:
Now Close to $5 Million Level.
Could View Virus in Same Light as Hurricanes.
But ... With Hurricanes, FEMA Replaces Reserves.
Must Avoid Use of Reserves for Recurring Cost.
26
Recommendation on Proposed Millage
o Recommend Proposed Millage Be Approved
at 3.1514 (2019 Rate).
o Will be Advertised as a 12.19% Tax Increase.
o May Still Need Expenditure Cuts or Need to
Use Some Reserves. At Least Offers Some
Ability to Cover Uncertainties Between Now
and the Public Hearings Held in September.
27
2021 Budget and Capital Program
Presentation on Draft 2021 Budget
And Recommendation on Proposed Millage
Prepared By:
Ken Killgore
Administrative Services Director/CFO
1
2021 Budget and Capital Program
o Changes to General Fund Budgets.
o Changes to General Fund Revenues.
o Enterprise and Other Funds.
o Other Considerations and Proposed
Millage Recommendation.
2
General Fund Personnel
Additions/Deletions
o No Full-time Additions
o No Full-time Deletions
o No Part-time Additions
o Part-time Deletions:
Leisure Services - Asst. Recreation Supervisor
Leisure Services —Maintenance Worker I
3
Draft FY2021 General Fund Budget
Versus Current FY2020 Budget
$ (11,060) Personnel Costs
(161,429) Operating Expenses
(125,228) Capital Spending
(4,691) Transfers to Other Funds
$ (302,408) Decrease in Budget
0
Personnel Down $11,060
o Zero Provided for Pay Increases.
Or _ Health Insurance Premiums Down 3%.
o No Increase in Full -Time Employees.
I., Decrease of 2 Part-time Employees.
o $37,600 Provided for Retirement Payout.
o $51,632 Provided for Added Responsibilities.
o Zero Funding for Holiday Bonus or Incentives.
What's Included? —
Revenue Assumptions
Franchise Fees and Utility Taxes Looking to be
Equal to 2019 This Year. Assuming Collections
Improve and 4.5%More is Received for 2021.
State Revenues - Y2Cent is 35% Less than Same
Month in Prior Year (April). Assuming This
Improves and 4.5% More Received for 2021.
Assumed $50K Reimbursement for COVID-19.
33% Property Tax, 11% Franchise Fees, 18%
Utility Taxes and 18% State Revenues Equal 80%
of Total Revenues.
Enterprise Funds:
Golf Course
Assuming 4.5% More Revenue than 2020.
$30,000 for Restaurant Lease.
1 $106,135 for Airport Rent.
o Paying $38,366 Principal and Interest on
$700,000 Building Fund Loan.
o Paying $35,000 Toward General Fund Loans.
o Forecasting Long-term Reduction in Deficit.
Enterprise Funds:
Airport
Added Revenue from Property Rentals.
Covering Personnel and Operational Cost.
o Paying off $150,000 General Fund Loan.
o Paying Scheduled Amortization of Loans from
Discretionary Sales Taxes.
o DST Funds for Matching Requirements on
Grants for a Taxi Lane and to Establish Sewer
Service on West Side of Airport.
Enterprise Funds:
Building
Budgeting Minor Decrease in Revenues.
o Adding Administrative Assistant.
11-
Covering Personnel and Operational Cost.
o Making Improvements to Front Counter.
Expecting $38,368 for Principal and Interest
on Golf Course Loan.
wt
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Local Option Gas Tax:
31% Less than Same Month Prior Year (March).
Assuming Collections Improve and Equal 2020.
$400,000 Allocated for Road Resurfacing.
$100,000 Allocated for Sidewalks.
$81,000 Allocated for Roadway Signs.
$176,000 Allocated for Equipment.
$243,340 for Payment on Notes. ($591,000
Outstanding at 9/30/2020. Matures in 2022.
10
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Discretionary Sales Tax:
• 37% Less in April vs. Same Month Prior Year.
Assuming Collections Better & Up 4.5% 2021.
Allocations to MIS and Police Vehicles.
$500,000 for Road Reconstruction Work.
Harrison St. Plaza/Design of N. Central Plaza.
Tree Protection Plan.
Canal Restoration.
Slip Lining
Economic Development Hangar.
• May Defer Projects If Collections Not Adequate.
11
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Riverfront CRA Fund:
4%Increase in Taxable Values.
Landscaping/Parking Improvements and
Repairs at Working Waterfront.
Special Events and Sign Grants.
Expecting No New Sewer Connection Grant
Funds Needed for 2021.
Allocation of CRA Manager Cost.
Y2of Landscaping Contract.
12
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Recreation Impact Fee Fund:
Fully Allocating the Available Collections.
Unspecified Improvements ($5K per Zone).
Additional Park Signage.
Completing Barber Street Bleachers.
Playground Improvements (Including All
Inclusive Features).
Future Projects Dependent on Collections.
13
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Stormwater Utility Fund:
Fees Covering Ongoing Personnel and
Operational Cost.
Includes Equipment Replacements.
$100,000 Allocated for Roadway Swales
and Culverts Work.
Y2of Landscaping Contract.
$200,000 Allocated for Developing an
Updated Stormwater Master Plan.
14
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue Funds
o Law Enforcement Forfeiture Fund:
Used Only for Unbudgeted Items.
Specific Items Need City Council Approval.
Current Balance is $321700.
o Parking In Lieu Of Fund:
.
Expecting
$57,,835
Year
End
2020
Balance.
. $3,000 in
2021 on
Crab
Stop
Agreement.
15
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Special Revenue/Trust Funds
o Cemetery Trust Fund:
Y2of Sales Expendable on Expansions or
Cost Incidental to Adding Future Sites.
Funding Columbarium Niches.
• Y2of Sales on Operations and Maintenance.
Allocation for Equipment, Driveway
Resurfacing and Grounds Improvements.
Transferring $85K to General Fund, Then
$90K in Future Years.
16
Special Revenue and Other Funds:
Debt Service Funds
o Stormwater Utility Debt Service:
Includes Required Bank Note Payments
Which are Paid by Discretionary Sales Tax.
$782,000 Outstanding as of 9/30/20.
Final Maturity on 5/01/22.
17
Capital Improvement Program
o $27.6 Million Over 6 Years. $5.8 Million
Next Fiscal Year. $23.2 Million Last Year.
o Largest Items for Next Fiscal Year:
$900,000 Street Repaving/Reconstruction.
$200,000 Stormwater Master Plan.
4 $500,000 Canal Restoration.
$569,264 New Taxi Way at Airport.
4 $1,000,000 Sewer Services at Airport.
Property Values and Millage:
Certified Taxable Values
o Rolled
-Back Millage
is 2.8091.
Budget Assumes
Same
2.9399 as
This
Year, A 4.66%
Increase.
Total Certified Taxable Property Values
Increased $99,290,047 or 7.18% Above 2020.
• Additions Account for $33,685,698 or
2.44% of the Increase.
Reassessments Account for $65,604,349 or
4.74% of the Increase.
Last Year's Millage of 3.1514 Would Increase
Revenues by $300,917 Over the 2.9399 Millage
Currently Assumed in 2021 Budget Draft.
IM
Property Values and Millage:
Taxable Value Additions
Dollar Value of Tax Roll Additions:
2020 33,685,698 2016 25,763,700
2019 23,351,814 2015 25,492,245
2018 15,998,366 2014 19,914,805
2017 35,951,704 2013 91435,090
Tax Roll Additions Yield $95,071 of Added
Revenue for 2021 at the 2.9399 Millage).
20
kL
Property Values and Millage:
3.1514 Mills Versus 2.9399
1. 0322% On Homestead:
10% On
Others:
2.9399
3.1514
2.9399
3.1514
ASSESSED VALUES
$200,000
$202,064
$200,000
$220,000
TAXABLE VALUES
$150,000
$152,064
$200,000
$220,000
TAXES
$441
$479
$588
$693
CHANGE (8.6% - 17.9%)
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................
$38
$105
ASSESSED VALUES
$250,000
$252,581
$250,000
$275,000
TAXABLE VALUES
$200,000
$202,581
$250,000
$275,000
TAXES
$588
$638
$735
$867
CHANGE (8.5% - 18.0%)
$50
$132
ASSESSED VALUES
TAXABLE VALUES
TAXES
CHANGE (8.6% - 17.9%)
$300,000 $303,097
$250,000 $253,097
$735 $798
$63
$300,000 $330,000
$300,000 $330,000
$882 $1,040
$158
21
4.0000
3.9000
3.8000
3.7000
3.6000
S
a
3.5000 m
e
3.4000
3.3000 S
a
rr
3.2000
e
3.1000
3_0000
2.9000
City of Sebastian
Yearly Millage Setting
IN, __ r L
Final Less Than
Roll -back
posed
e
A L Final Above
b e Roll -back s
s
o s
V 5
e Lj
Final Same As Proposed N/ Fin
Final Same
as Roll -back
al Less Than Proposed
_At_At
2.8000
M
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018
2019
2020
❑ Rolled- Back
3.0519
3.2121
3.3646
3_8038
3.9019
3.7311
3.5646
3.7398
3.5446
3.6290
3.6700
3.4939
3.1514
2.9399
■ Proposed
3.0519
3.0519
3.3646
3_8038
3.5940
3.3041
3.7166
3.7166
3_8556
3.8556
3.8556
3.8000
3.4000
3.1514
0 Final
3.0519
2.9917
3.3456
3.3456
3.3041
3.3041
3.7166
3.7166
3.8556
3.8556
3.8000
3.4000
3.1514
2.9399
Other Considerations
o Labor Agreements Negotiations.
Hurricane Season.
o Legal Settlements.
Additional Experience of Virus Effect
Revenues — Might Adjust Revenue Estimates.
o Assumed Better Revenues by October 2020.
o Balanced by Optimistic Revenue Estimates,
Cutting Pay Increases, Cutting Operating
Accounts and Funding Capital Items with
Other Funds or Deferring Them to Next Year.
23
Options on Millage
o Levy Rolled -Back Millage of 2.8091 — 0%:
Requires $186,240 of Expense Cuts - No Pay
Increases and Reduction in Level of Service.
Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
o Levy Same 2020 Millage of 2.9399 — 4.7%:
Draft Budget is Balanced With No Reserves.
No Provision for Pay Increases.
o Levy Same 2019 Millage of 3.1514— 12.2%:
Allows $300,917 Contingency for Less Revenues.
Room for Labor Negotiations/Pay Increases.
Some Cushion for Legal Fees/Settlements.
24
Options on Pay Increases
0 2.0% - $145,471 Added to General Fund:
Requires $145,471 of Expense Cuts and
Reduction in Level of Service.
Or Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
0 2.5% - $183,307 Added to General Fund:
Requires $183,307 of Expenditure Cuts and
Reduction in Level of Service.
Or Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
� 3.0% - $215,024 Added to General Fund:
. Requires $215,024 of Expenditure Cuts and
Reduction in Level of Service.
Or Balance Budget by Using Reserves.
25
Concerns Regarding Proposed Millage
o Budget Balanced at 2.9399 — 4.66% Tax
Increase But There Are Concerns:
Projected Revenues May Be Optimistic.
No Room For Labor Negotiations.
No Allowance For Legal Actions.
Further Cuts May Reduce Levels of Service.
c Only Option Will Be Using Reserves:
. Now Close to $5 Million Level.
Could View Virus in Same Light as Hurricanes.
But ... With Hurricanes, FEMA Replaces Reserves.
Must Avoid Use of Reserves for Recurring Cost.
26
Recommendation on Proposed Millage
o Recommend Proposed Millage Be Approved
at 3.1514 (2019 Rate).
o Will be Advertised as a 12.19% Tax Increase.
o May Still Need Expenditure Cuts or Need to
Use Some Reserves. At Least Offers Some
Ability to Cover Uncertainties Between Now
and the Public Hearings Held in September.
27