HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019 Executive Session TranscriptCITY OF SEBASTIAN
SEBASTIAN CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING
FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONVENING
ATTORNEY -CLIENT SESSION
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
1225 MAIN STREET, SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA
NOVEMBER, 26, 2019
7:05 p.m.
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ED DODD, Mayor
CHARLES MAUTI, Vice Mayor
PAUL CARLISLE, City Manager
JIM HILL, Council Member
DAMIEN GILLIAMS, Council Member
PAMELA PARRIS, Council Member
JAMES STOKES, City Attorney
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THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD:
MR. STOKES: We are on to a new case. This one
I don't think any of you have seen, so I wanted to
give copies of the complaint, mostly of because of
the attachments that exist on it.
This case is against Sembler & Sembler, Inc.
This is a situation that dates back, actually, a
couple managers. But I got involved with it with
Joe Griffin back in the day, because this is down
there where we put in the new bathrooms, new public
bathrooms, and we put in a lift station. At the
time across the street there was an open ditch that
ran east and west, crossed under the roadway. There
was a catch basin there, and then there was a pipe
that went out into the river there. And what Joe
did is he put an underground pipe. Instead of the
open ditch, he put an underground pipe.
The understanding at the time that it was north
of the property line, along the property line. It
turned out that it was partially on Sembler's
property or right along the property line.
Actually, it was kind of at an angle. So it kind of
hit both. Correct me if I get any of these facts
wrong.
The catch basin that was on east side of the
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roadway was replaced with a baffle box in order to
keep stuff from going into the river, to catch any
debris or trash or whatever.
At the time Mr. Sembler approached Joe wanting
to tie into the lift station so that he could
develop that property. Joe had worked out an
agreement with him to allow --
MS. PARRIS: With Charlie?
MR. STOKES: With Charlie Sembler. And then,
of course, that was right about the time Joe Griffin
was leaving, and it was never executed. A new
manager came on board. It just sat for a long time,
because nobody did anything with it, and then the
back and forth started.
I guess you can speak more, because you were
involved in that. But, basically, at this point in
time, Charlie Sembler is saying that he is not going
to recognize that easement.
You know, the city considers it a drainage
easement. It's been there. The attachments are all
in there. But it's been there. We've got documents
and maps back to the '40s.
MR. MAUTI: So it's a prescriptive easement?
MR. STOKES: It's a prescriptive easement. So
that's what we filed for, was prescriptive easement
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on this.
I have heard from Mr. Sembler's attorney, Steve
Henderson that he is using, that he's okay giving us
the easement. And we'll actually record an
easement. But, initially, he said that he wanted, I
think it was $30,000 for the easement. And then we
floated the idea of we're going ahead and signing
the agreement in order to let him connect to the
lift station. Might be a compensation for the
easement and all that.
So that's kind of where we're at right now.
They have not filed a response yet, because we've
kind of got the whole thing on hold while we met
with you and tried to work this out. And,
obviously, Mr. Carlisle can fill in the blanks or
explain more on this.
MR. MAUTI: Do we have documentation that there
was a prescriptive easement there?
MR. STOKES: Well, prescriptive easement, by
its nature, is never recorded anywhere. But we do
have --
MR. MAUTI: On paper.
MR. STOKES: We have maps that show it back,
like I said, to the '40s that show the line.
And, also, Mr. Sembler bought the property
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1 right about 20 years ago. I think it was like 1988,
2 1989. And just before he closed on it, he submitted
3 an application. Because at that time it ended at
4 the baffle box and it was an open drain reservoir,
5 and he wanted to put an underground pipe there. So
6 he got a permit to connect to that baffle box and he
7 filed it before -- go ahead.
8 MR. CARLISLE: So it was an open pipe under
9 Indian River Drive the city owned and maintained.
10 The ditch conveyance along his property and boarded
11 our property, the parking lot across from
12 Fisherman's Landing. It was a joint -use drainage
13 conveyance, open conveyance. It was an open culvert
14 pipe under Indian River Drive that the city had been
15 maintaining since as long as it had been there.
16 Mr. Sembler connected his catch space into our
17 pipe and extended it through his property out to the
18 intracoastal waterway and filled in that open
19 conveyance. The city went and got a grant. This
20 was back in '89 when all that happened.
21 So he acknowledged our access by connecting our
22 pipe to his pipe, our argument it is. But when he
23 set that catch space and then connected our pipe to
24 his system, even though we had an open conveyance
25 originally, we had a prescriptive right to use it.
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He further acknowledged that we had a right to
discharge there by him connecting to our
infrastructure.
The city taking a grant from St. Johns Water
Management, a 50/50 grant, I don't know what the
exact amount was, to install that pollution and
nitrogen baffle box in the exact location of where
the catch basin was.
The original plan showing it being out to
closer to Indian River Drive, but that wouldn't work
because it obstructed the sidewalk. So then city
manager, then the city attorney at that time, moved
it to the exact location where the existing catch
basin that Mr. Sembler put in.
Furthermore, we went in and filled in the ditch
along Sembler's property and the Fisherman's Landing
parking lot, which further enhanced his property.
He had submitted a plan in 2008 to do exactly what
we did, to fill in that ditch and pipe it and to put
in the drainage structures. We did it with a grant
from St. Johns Water Management. When they set the
last three catch spaces, they veer from 6 inches to
a foot -and -a -half onto his property outside of our
property line, but we always had access to that open
ditch as part of our conveyance. We've always used
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that since we got maps that go back into the '40s to
drain that property.
So we feel very confident that we have a
prescriptive easement through that property. So the
baffle box was relocated. Mr. Sembler said, I want
that baffle box moved off my property.
I was now the city manager. I said, we can't
move it off your property. Something else we can
do? I'll be happy to move those other three. I
need you to sign, there's an easement agreement for
me to access your property to move those three catch
basins.
He said, I'm not signing. I'm not doing it.
You can't come on my property to move your basins
off of my property. I'm not signing it unless you
do it all.
Then the city council, they advised us. We
advised them of all the options. We can do a
taking. We can do an eminent domain. But the most
prudent was the prescriptive easement. We believe
we have the right, prescriptive easement. So we
directed the city attorney to file on the
prescriptive easement.
Mr. Sembler, I guess through his attorney,
reached out to us to kind of raise right back to
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where we started: We'll allow you to hook up to the
lift station if you'll allow the baffle box to stay,
the easements to stay. So we're kind of right back
to where we started in the beginning.
What we're waiting on now is the information
from the engineer on capacity for the lift station
so we can answer his attorney's question of what
available capacity is in that lift station.
To give you an example of one that I did since
I was here was the Grisham property, the three
parcels that are for sale on US1 behind the old
hotel. We did an agreement with him to access our
lift station to get him off septic, and we provided
a $46,000 in grants to help him close his.
So we've been consistent allowing people to tie
into our lift stations' capacities there. So if we
can make that successful, I think that's a win -win.
MR. DODD: Comments?
MR. HILL: I agree. If we can keep this out of
court, I mean, there's no need to take this to
court. If we can already come up with something
that was agreed upon originally, I think that's what
we should do.
MS. PARRIS: It sounds reasonable to me.
MR. MAUTI: What else does he want? What is he
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looking for?
MR. STOKES: Like I said, his offer was
originally at 30,000. We went back and proposed the
connection, because we knew that's what he wanted.
His attorney said that Charlie Sembler is kind
okay with that. He just wants to make sure that the
capacity is there and everything. But they haven't
accepted it yet. So I would expect that they'll
come back and probably say, yeah, we want to
connect, but we want 10,000, you know what I mean?
Or his attorney fees paid or something.
So, I mean, I don't know what they're going to
come back with. He might just come back and be
happy connecting. Because that's originally what he
wanted. Even back when he was dealing with Joe
Griffin, he wanted to connect to that lift station,
because that adds value to his property.
MR. CARLISLE: If I may, Mr. Mayor? We have a
pretty good understanding of what it costs. It's
about $33,000, is what we've been seeing, to connect
a lift station into the force main, to put in a new
lift station, connect it to the force main,
depending on where it is. They've been running them
in some of the grafts we've been seeing, about 30 to
33,000. So allowing -- and they're different
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depending on where they are. Distance to run, all
of things play into effect. But it may be, I mean,
it's may be a wash, if you're going connect without
having to spend the money.
MR. HILL: There's nothing out of our pockets.
We've already got the lift station in place. It's
not going to cost the city anything. He'll get the
benefit without having any cash out of pocket.
MR. CARLISLE: We'll have an agreement for
maintenance and repairs should he connect. And
something he does, damages, the responsible party
will pay for the repairs.
MR. STOKES: That's our standard agreement.
MR. DODD: What do you think?
MR. MAUTI: I say keep it out of the courts.
MR. DODD: Damien?
MR. GILLIAMS: What was the total amount of
money the city had invested in improving the
drainage there?
MR. CARLISLE: I don't have that exact dollar
figure. Again, don't quote me on this, I think it
was somewhere in the neighborhood of $250,000 was
what we -- I'm thinking it was somewhere in that
neighborhood.
MR. MAUTI: For that whole project?
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MR. CARLISLE: For the whole project. Not the
bathrooms, not the lift station. I'm talking just
the storm drain.
MR. GILLIAMS: Storm drain. Putting a pipe in
there, filling it over 250,000. Was that on the --
that went through CRA? Did that go through -- was
that a handshake with Joe?
MR. CARLISLE: It was before me.
MR. MAUTI: It was Joe Griffin.
MR. GILLIAMS: So what does the records show?
Did that go through the CRA, do we know?
MR. CARLISLE: Well, the city council would
have had to approve it, because it would have
gone --
MR. DODD: It would have been done through the
CRA.
MR. CARLISLE: Because you have to accept the
grant from St. Johns, you have to administer the
funds. It would have had to go through council.
MR. DODD: It would have been a CRA.
MR. CARLISLE: Quasi CRA.
MR. GILLIAMS: So you think it was matching
money from St. Johns on that as well?
MR. CARLISLE: It was. In fact, to give you,
Mr. Sembler filed a complaint with St. Johns to try
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to get us to acquiesce. I met with St. Johns with
the city attorney and explained to them what we were
doing. And they were fine with our process that we
were going to do to try to work it out and get that
done.
So if we couldn't work it out, they would want
their money back, if they put it into the project.
MR. GILLIAMS: So the city and St. Johns has
got a $250,000 investment to --
MR. DODD: That was part. And I wasn't on the
council then, but we did three or four baffle boxes.
And we had a grant from St. Johns to do three or
four baffle boxes down through there. I think that
was done at the same time that other work was done.
They replaced several different setups with baffle
boxes.
So I don't know that that $250,000 was just
that piece. It might have been that whole thing.
MR. CARLISLE: No, I think it was just that
section. We did it in sections. There's different
baffle boxes that the city put in to help reduce the
pollutants going into the intracoastal waterway,
which is a good thing. So we tied a DOT discharge
off of US1, if I remember correctly. Again, all of
this is prior to my tenure. But to stop the
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pollutants coming off of US1 and going into --
MR. GILLIAMS: The intracoastal.
MR. CARLISLE: -- the intracoastal waterway.
So, you know, it's not only just trash, it's
nutrient filters, which we keep in stock to keep
those changed.
MR. GILLIAMS: So he's looking for us to help
him connect to the lift station there?
MR. CARLISLE: He's not asking us to help him.
We're allowing him connect at his cost.
MR. GILLIAMS: At his cost?
MR. CARLISLE: At his cost.
MR. HILL: Asa settlement for us putting the
baffle box on his property.
MR. CARLISLE: Partially on his property.
MR. MAUTI: We also have the so-called
prescription easement to file on.
MR. CARLISLE: Well, it would have to file a
prescription easement. Because if he accepts the
offer of the lift station, we'll have a dedicated.
MR. DODD: And he's going to want to develop
that. Because the last time he had a development
order put together on that piece of property, he was
going to have to do quite a bit of work with storm
water drainage. That's when that pond was still
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there. That was before all that stuff was done. He
was going to have to do quite a bit. This will save
him money on developing that property also.
MR. HILL: Mr. Mayor, I would ask that the city
attorney and the city manager continue the process
and see if they can come up with an agreement that
is amicable. Stay out of court and save us money.
MR. DODD: Does anybody have a problem with
that?
MS. PARRIS: I'm confident Charlie will
be agreeable.
MR. DODD: So go forward with it?
MR. MAUTI: I say go forward.
MR. CARLISLE: If there's any changes, we can
always have we have another executive session. We
will have to settle it if there's any changes.
MR. DODD: Thank you.
MR. STOKES: So the close session is closed.
(The proceedings concluded at 7:19 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE
I, CYNTHIA O'CAIN, a Shorthand Reporter and
Notary Public of the State of Florida at large certify
that I was authorized to stenographically report the
foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true
and complete record of my stenographic notes.
DATED this 30th day of December, 2019.
CYNTHIA O'CAIN
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accepted 9:8
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acknowledged
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acquiesce 12:1
adds9:17
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ago 5:1
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answer8:7
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copies2:4
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correctly 12:24
cost 10:7 13:10
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council 1:2,5,15
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couple 2:8
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court8:20,21
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depending 9:23
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different 9: 25
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directed 7:22
discharge 6:2
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ditch 2:12,17
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domain 7:19
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effect 10:2
eminent 7:19
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invested 10:18
investment 12:9
involved 2:8
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3:10 9:15 11:7
11:9
Johns 6:4,21
11:18,23,25
12:1,8,12
joint -use 5:12
K
keep 3:2 8:19
10:15 13:5,5
kind 2:22,22
4:11,13 7:25
8:3 9:5
knew 9:4
know3:19 6:5
9:10,12 11:11
12:17 13:4
L
Landing 5:12
6:16
large 15:5
leaving 3:11
lift2:11 3:5 4:9
8:2,6,8,13,16
9:16,21,22
10:6 11:2 13:8
13:20
line 2:19,19,21
4:24 6:24
location 6:7,13
long 3:12 5:15
looking 9:1 13:7
lot5:11 6:17
M
main 1:6 9:21
9:22
maintained 5:9
maintaining
5:15
maintenance
10:10
Management
6:5,21
manager 1:14
3:12 6:12 7:7
14:5
managers 2:8
maps 3:22 4:23
7:1
matching 11:22
MAUTI 1:13
3:23 4:17,22
8:25 10:15,25
11:9 13:16
14:13
Mayor 1:12,13
9:18 14:4
mean 8:20 9:10
9:12 10:2
MEETING 1:2
Member 1:15,16
1:17
met4:13 12:1
money 10:4,18
11:23 12:7
14:3,7
move 7:8,9,11
7:14
moved 6:12 7:6
N
nature 4:20
need 7:10 8:20
neighborhood
10:22,24
never 3:11 4:20
new 2:2,10,10
3:11 9:21
nitrogen 6:7
north 2:18
Notary 15:5
notes 15:8
NOVEMBER 1:7
nutrient 13:5
O
O'CAIN 15:4,14
obstructed 6:11
obviously 4:15
offer9:2 13:20
okay4:3 9:6
old 8:11
open 2:12,17
5:4,8,13,13,18
5:24 6:24
options 7:18
order 3:1 4:8
13:23
original6:9
originally 5:25
8:22 9:3,14
outside 6: 23
owned 5:9
p.m 1:8 14:19
paid 9:11
PAMELA 1:17
paper4:22
parcels 8:11
parking 5:11
6:17
PARRIS 1:17
3:8 8:24 14:10
part6:25 12:10
partially 2: 20
13:15
party 10:11
PAUL 1:14
pay 10:12
people 8:15
permit 5:6
piece 12:18
13:23
pipe 2:14,16,17
5:5,8,14,17,22
5:22,23 6:19
11:4
place 10:6
plan 6:9,18
play 10:2
pocket10:8
pockets 10:5
point3:16
pollutants 12:22
13:1
pollution 6:6
pond 13:25
prescription
13:17,19
prescriptive
3:23,24,25
4:18,19 5:25
7:4,20,21,23
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
pretty 9:19
prior12:25
probably 9:9
problem 14:8
proceedings 2: 1
14:19 15:7
process12:3
14:5
project 10:25
11:1 12:7
property2:19
2:19,21,21 3:6
4:25 5:10,11
5:17 6:16,17
6:23,24 7:2,4,6
7-811,14,15
8.16 9:17
13:14,15,23
14:3
proposed 9:3
provided 8:13
prudent7:20
public2:10 15:5
PURPOSE 1:3
put 2:10,11,16
2:17 5:5 6:14
6:19 9:21 12:7
12:21 13:23
putting 11:4
13:13
Q
Quasi11:21
question 8:7
quite 13:24 14:2
quote 10:21
R
R 15:1
raise 7:25
ran 2:13
reached 7:25
reasonable 8:24
recognize 3:18
record 4:4 15:8
recorded 4:20
records11:10
reduce12:21
relocated 7:5
remember
12:24
repairs 10:10,12
replaced 3:1
12:15
report 15:6
Reporter15:4
reservoir 5:4
response4:12
responsible
10:11
right2:21 3:10
4:11 5:1,25
6:1 7:21,25
8:3
river2:15 3:2
5:9,14 6:10
roadway 2:13
3:1
run 10:1
running 9:23
S
sale 8:11
sat 3:12
save 14:2,7
saying 3:17
SEBASTIAN 1:1
1:2,6
section 12:20
sections 12:20
see 14:6
seeing 9:20,24
seen 2:3
Sembler 2:6,6
3:4,9,17 4:25
5:16 6:14 7:5
7:24 9:5 11:25
Sembler's 2: 20
4:2 6:16
septic 8:13
session 1:4
14:15,18
set5:23 6:21
settle 14:16
settlement
13:13
setups12:15
Shorthand 15:4
show 4:23, 24
11:10
showing 6:9
side 2:25
sidewalk 6:11
sign 7:10
signing4:7 7:13
7:15
situation 2:7
so-called 13:16
sounds8:24
space 5:16,23
spaces6:22
speak3:15
SPECIALI:2
spend10:4
St6:4,21 11:18
11:23,25 12:1
12:8,12
standard 10:13
started 3:14 8:1
8:4
State 15:5
station 2:11 3:5
4:9 8:2,6,8113
9:16,21,22
10:6 11:2 13:8
13:20
stations' 8:16
stay 8:2,3 14:7
stenographic
15:8
stenographic...
15:6
Steve 4:2
stock13:5
STOKES 1:18
2:2 3:9,24
4:19,23 9:2
10:13 14:18
stop 12:25
storm 11:3,4
13:24
street 1:6 2:12
structures 6:20
stuff3:2 14:1
submitted 5:2
6:18
successful8:17
sure 9:6
system 5:24
T
T 15:1,1
take 8:20
talking 11:2
tenure12:25
Thank14:17
thing 4:13 12:18
12:23
things 10:2
think 2:3 4:6
5:1 8:17,22
10:14,21 11:22
12:13,19
thinking 10:23
three 6:22 7:9
7:11 8:10
12:11,12
tie 3:5 8:15
tied 12:23
time2:12,18 3:4
3:10,12,17 5:3
6:12 12:14
13:22
total 10:17
transcript 15:7
trash 3:3 13:4
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
tried 4:14
true 15:7
try 11:25 12:4
turned 2:20
U
underground
2:16,17 5:5
understanding
2:18 9:19
US18:11 12:24
13:1
use 5:25
V
value 9:17
veer6:22
Vice 1:13
W
waiting 8:5
want 7:5 8:25
9:9110 12:6
13:21
wanted 2:3 4:5
5:5 9:4,15,16
wanting 3:4
wants 9:6
wash 10:3
wasn't 12:10
water 6:4,21
13:25
waterway 5:18
12:22 13:3
we'll4:4 8:1
10:9 13:20
we're 4:7,11 8:3
8,5 13,10
we've 3:21 4:12
6:25 8:15 9:20
9:24 10:6
went2:15 5:19
6:15 9:3 11:6
west 2:13
win -win 8:17
work4:14 6:10 66:22
12:4,6,14
13:24 7
worked 3:6 7:05 1:8
wouldn't6:10 7:1914:19
wrong 2:24 8
x 89 5:20
y
yeah 9:9
years 5:1
10,000 9:10
12251:6
1988 5:1
1989 5:2
2
20 5:1
2008 6:18
20191:7 15:11
250,00010:22
11:5 12:9,17
261:7
3
30 9:24
30,0004:6 9:3
30th 15:11
33,000 9:20,25
4
40s 3:22 4:24
7:1
46,000 8:14
5
50/50 6:5
6
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231