HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-16-2024 MinutesCITY OF SEBASTIAN
POLICE PENSION BOARD
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 16, 2024
Call to Order and Roll Call
Roll Call
Present:
Board Members:
Mr. Puscher
Chairman Wood
Not Present
Mr. Reeves — Excused
Ms. Ring
Detective McDonough
Also Present:
Sean Sendra, Klausner, Kaufman, Jensen & Levinson, Attorney for the Board
of Trustees
Cynthia Watson, Human Resources Director
Ken Killgore, Plan Administrator
Nicholas Ladyman, AV Technician
Janet Graham, Technical Writer
Corporal Mathew Radock, IUPA Union Representative
T.J. Loew, Graystone Consulting
John Gunther, Polen Capital
II. Vote to Exnuse Absent Members
Chairman Wood made a motion to excuse Board member Mr. Reeves, which was
seconded by Detective McDonough. Motion was approved by a unanimous vote of
4-0. Motion carries.
III. ADDrOVal of Minutes
A. December 14, 2023 Regular Quarterly Meeting
All Board members having indicated they had reviewed the Minutes as presented,
Chairman Wood called for a motion to approve the Minutes as presented. An objection
to the Minutes as written was lodged by Ms. Ring, stating that discussion that was held
during that meeting was not In the Minutes. Chairman Wood stated that there is a
recording of the meeting and explained that the Minutes are a paraphrasing of what went
on in the meeting. A motion approving the Minutes of December 14, 2023 as
POLICE PENSION BOARD
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 16, 2024
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presented was made by Chairman Wood, seconded by Mr. Puscher, and approved via
voice vote of 3 ayes and 1 nay. Motion carries.
IV. Old Business
1. Approval of Payments Made:
a. Polen Capital — July to September $3,070.20
b. Genter Capital Management -- July to September $ 693.00
c. Klausner, Kaufman, Jensen & Levinson --
August to September $2,802,50
d. City of Sebastian -- for Janet Graham December
Meeting $ 145.00
Chairman Wood called for a motion. A motion approving the payments as listed on the
agenda was made by Mr. Puscher, seconded by Chairman Wood, and approved
unanimously via voice vote.
2. Approval of Proposed Actuarial Studies
a $3,000 Quote from Foster & Foster
b. Letter Stating City Staff's Opposition
c Initial Memo from Deputy Mathew Radock
Mr. Kiligore discussed the proposal from Foster & Foster, which apparently was the result
of conversations with the union representative. He stated that he also provided a letter
from himself on behalf of City staff indicating that they did not realize, and it was not stated
at the previous meeting, that the study would be so comprehensive. All that was indlcated
at the meeting was that it would be a 25-year-out calculation. However, what is included
in the proposal is also to look at a change in the benefit accrual rate being increased as
one part of the study, and reduction in the employee contribution from 8% to 3%. Thus,
staff does not believe this is appropriate and is not appropriate that it be paid from pension
trust funds, as it is just additional information and ammunition, so to speak, to negotiate
against the City's position. Benefits are a matter of negotiation with the police union. Mr.
Kiligore stated the City is registering its issue with approving this comprehensive study.
Mr. Puscher asked if the number of items listed is identical to what we agreed to begin
with.
Mr. Killgore said that the discussion at the previous Pension Board meeting was to
consider 25 years and out before benefits. They were to consult with the actuary, come
up with a cost estimate for that study, and what the actuary is saying is that apparently
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JANUARY 16, 2024
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the conversation led to some other calculations and options. Mr. Puscher asked if the
City is opposed to all of it or just the extra items. Mr. Killgore explained that he thinks the
position from City staff is that the City would be opposed to spending any trust fund
monies towards any of the calculations.
Chairman Wood stated that it was his recollection that the Board agreed to allow them to
speak, and that is why we called them for this meeting, to make sure we were okay with
everything that they were going to be potentially attempting to get done by the actuary.
Mr. Puscher opined that it was just to define that 100% at 25 and out.
Ms. Ring stated that she still disagrees, and that Is why she is disagreeing with the
Minutes. She recalls that the Board agreed to have them come back with a report that it
was not going to cost us money, but it was not going to be definite. He was supposed to
come back with a range of values and a range of different options.
Detective McDonough stated that his recollection is that, when they did speak —the union
and the actuary --the idea was that they could do the 100% at 25, So the actuary got with
the union and said that the 100% at 25 years is probably not going to work. it is something
that probably the City would not be able to do, as it was too high. So what they did was
back down from that 100% to 85%. In doing so, the actuary put in how we could do that,
which is how these other things came into play, referencing the multiplier and different
things. So, to get to where we wanted to get, those things are somethings that had to be
looked at. It could not just do this at 85% or 100%. The 100% was basically the union
and the actuary agreeing that it probably is not something that is able to be done. So
they dropped it to the 85% at 25 years, and the actuary explained how we can get there,
and those are the things that can be done. So those are things to show the City that this
is what we could do.
Mr. Puscher stated that it is his understanding that the City does not want to agree before
those items are presented, but they want to do it together. Mr. Killgore stated that is
correct, that the City thinks it should be a negotiated thing to look at and evaluate as part
of the process of negotiations.
Detective McDonough asked if Corporal Radock, the union representative, could speak
on this matter, since he is here at the meeting, and he could explain a bit more about how
the process went with him and the actuary. Mr. Killgore said that would be the Chairman's
decision. Chairman Wood said he is not opposed to that.
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JANUARY 16, 2024 p
Corporal Radock said he spoke to Mr. Lozen regarding what was spoken at the last
meeting. Mr. Lozen stated to Corpo�l Radock that it is not going to be in the City's best
interest to do 100% at 25 years. T69 union wants to work with the City. They came up
with a couple different methods that Mr. Lozen thinks will work for the City and for the
union and the officers as well. That is what is on the email that was sent out. It is not
85%; it is actually 90% at �2�5� years. That is keeping the 8% with a 3.4 multiplier. He
reviewed the other matters ttsat were That
between Mr. Lozen and Corporal Radock.
They did discuJdropping because they are high at 8% compared to the other agencies
in the area, who are at 3%-6%. They then actually dropped it down to what the State is,
and that would be at 75% at 25 years. That would move them up to 100% at 30 years.
So they decided not to bring something to the City that is not even going to be negotiated.
He stated they wanted to get the numbers to show the City that It would work and that it
is good for the police officers and for the City as well. That is why Mr. Lozen decided to
go ahead and say yes to the $3,000.00 for everything that we have.
Mr. Puscher stated that there is also a plan sponsor who is not happy with that program.
So we have to take into consideration what is best for the plan, not the union or the City.
He would want to see them go to the table and come to some consensus of what they
would both like to figure out the cost on and bring that forward.
Chairman Wood said that, if they go to the table and they do another three-year contract
at three more years, they are going to have to wait for anything to happen unless the City
is willing to do anything once the ink is on the paper. That is his only concern with us
waiting — it may potentially push us out significantly longer. He is not sure if they can
start negotiating now for the contract that is starting In a year from now. Mr. Kiligore said
the current contract runs through the next fiscal year. Chairman Wood asked if they can
start negotiating tomorrow if they wanted to so they don't have to wart. Mr. Killgore said
they could approach the City Manager regarding this matter.
Mr. Sandra introduced himself. He works with Ms. Jensen, and he is filling in this evening
because she had a scheduling conflict. He reviewed his experience with the firm and
described how these issues are handled. He said that the Board's duty is to administer
the terms of the plan as they are laid out. In this case, you have collective bargaining that
leads to the ordinance changes in the terms of the plan. There is a point for the Board to
be involved, to potentially allow the actuary to speak to the union, which clearly that has
happened already, and also for the Board to potentially pay for a study. However, the
time to do that is once there has been some conversation with the City in order to narrow
down three or four benefit change options, and it is possibly likely that the City would
agree to them as well, and then potentially pay for it.
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There was additional general discussion on this matter among the Board members,
Corporal Radock, Mr. Killgore, Mr. Sendra, and Mr. Gunther after which Chairman Wood
suggested that the union try to meet with the City before the next meeting so that this item
can be put on the agenda for that meeting. Mr. Killgore suggested that there is agreement
not to take any action on this item at this time. A motion tabling this item until the next
scheduled meeting was made by Chairman Wood and seconded by Mr. Puscher. The
vote was 4-0. Motion carries.
b. Approval of Agreement with Foster & Foster for Plan Administrative
Services
Mr. Killgore recalled that this was spoken about at the last meeting. Foster & Foster has
presented an agreement to provide administrative services, basically take the job away
that he has been doing for the Board. This has been reviewed by the Board's attorneys'
office, and it has been proposed that it be effective as of tomorrow. He has had some
discussion with Foster & Foster as far as the transition and what would be necessary in
setting up different approvals for signatures. It will also be looking at better internal
control, because presently Mr. Killgore is the only one who can authorize Salem Trust to
disperse monies. At least the Chair should be on that signature page, or it should require
two signatures. Those details will be worked so that it is properly put in place. From
everything that Mr. Killgore has heard from the individual who is going to be doing this
service, and he thinks she will do a fine job. Mr. Killgore described how this would be
implemented. Chairman Wood called for a motion. A motion approving of the agreement
with Foster & Foster for Plan Administrative Services was made by Mr. Puscher,
seconded by Chairman Wood, and approved unanimously via voice vote.
V. New Business
a. Clarification of a Second Andrea Ring Letter Addressed to City Officials
Chairman Wood asked Ms. Ring It she had anything else to say regarding the letter. Ms.
Ring said she would like the Board members to be more civil at all times.
Chairman Wood stated that he is aware that she is asking the Board members to be civil,
but she is also making false accusations for the second time, and she should understand
that these meetings are recorded, and he suggested that she listen to the recordings
before she writes letters. Ms. Ring said she knows exactly what the recording says, and
totally disagrees with it.
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b. Presentation by Senior Relationship Manager, Polen Capital
Mr. Gunther introduced himself and described his position with Polen Capital. Having
passed out hard copies of the Focus Growth Portfolio Review to each Board member, Mr.
Gunther described and explained in depth the Portfolio Review and called for questions
from the Board as he went through the report.
c. Report from Investment Monitor and Results of the Manager Search
Mr. Loew reviewed the Quarterly Performance Summary in depth as set forth in the report,
a hard copy of which was given to each Board member. He then called for
questionstcomments from the Board members
Mr. Puscher asked if there were peer rankings. Mr. Loew pointed out the peer rankings
in the report.
There being no more questions from the Board, Mr. Loew moved on to discuss the
Investment Manager Search Analysis, a hard copy of which was given to each Board
member. He then called for questions/comments from the Board members.
Chairman Wood suggested holding off for another quarter and seeing where Polen is at,
and maybe proceed from there.
Ms. Ring agreed with Chairman Wood.
Mr. Puscher agreed with Chairman Wood. He stated that you don't get rid of managers
because of underperformance; you get rid of managers because you don't have faith in
them anymore. He has not lost faith in Polen, and he appreciated Mr. Gunther being here
and going over the data.
Detective McDonough had no questions.
Mr. Loew said he will bring an update at the next meeting.
VI. Leaal Uodates
a. Update on State Legislation
b. Electronic Financial Disclosure Management System for Financial
Interest Filing
POLICE PENSION BOARD
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JANUARY 16, 2024
c. IRS Mileage Rate for 2024
d. Other Legal Matters
PAGE 7
Mr. Sandra reported that the IRS mileage rate increased for 2024 to $0.67 per mile.
The Board is also required to file Form 1s by July 16t. The State has moved towards the
law that it passed a couple of years ago, and It will be all online this year Instead of by
paper for the local office. So, you will have to go to the website and register, and then
you will get credentials to get your Form 1, and you can file it in that manner.
Foster & Foster was already discussed, and Mr. Killgore has the contract, so he will need
the Chair and the Secretary to execute it after the meeting this evening.
Regarding the accrual benefit for Michael Brandes, there Is a calculation issue. It is his
understanding there were some emails between Ms. Jensen and Mr. Killgore, and Mr.
Killgore may be able to provide a better update. He believes they were in the process of
paying for the calculations at this point so that they could properly put the orders together.
Mr. Killgore said he did direct them back to make the payment to Foster & Foster directly.
Mr. Puscher asked if there is an employee paying for a calculation. Mr. Killgore said yes,
this was a matter between this person and his spouse and their attorneys to come up with
a calculation of his benefit level. So the City thought It appropriate that he bear that cost.
Mr. Sendra added that he understands that there was an issue about police recruits being
added to the pension plan from an actuarial standpoint. Ms. Jensen looked into that, and
the advice from their office to the City was that the safest way to do that is that the recruits
that are full time for the City who are going through the certification process, since they
are being paid by the City, it is better to enroll them as members of the police plan and
then, if they were not to become certified for some reason, they would be entitled to a
return of their contributions made up to that point. However, in order to comply with the
state statutes and the definitions there, the advice is that they should be put into the police
plan while they are in that process with the City where they are being paid while going
through the certification class. Mr. Killgore said the City has put all the current recruits
into the Police Pension Plan, and for all police recruits the City will do the same.
Chairman Wood asked if that counts towards their years of service, or is that as they are
swom. Mr. Killgore said his understanding is that that is their official date of service.
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Mr. Sendra said that is how the City would proceed with it, and when they become certified
and stay with the City or whenever they leave, it should be calculated based on that date.
The biggest issue would be if they don't certify for any reason. Then they just get their
contributions up to that point returned to them.
Mr. Puscher said it was his understanding they had to be a certified police officer to have
that time count towards their retirement. He stated that this plan follows FRS basically.
Mr. Sendra said that Ms. Jensen looked at the Florida statute definition versus the plan's
definition, and the plan's definition is that any actively employed, full-time person
employed by the City, including their probationary employment period, who is certified as
a condition of employment. So, the extension of the definition is basically you are required
to become certified. Based on how the state statute reads as well, the safest way to
address the Issue is to consider them part of the plan while they are being paid full-time
by the City to become certified. Mr. Puscher commented that, if going through the
academy and they get injured, how does the medical pension come into play for a
noncertified officer because they are enrolled in the plan. Mr. Sandra said that Ms.
Jensen's position is that, if they don't make it to certification, they are only entitled to a
refund. He stated he does not know that they could become a disabled member If they
become certified. He suggested that that would be a gratuitous extension of the terms of
the plan at that point. Mr. Puscher suggested that maybe some language should be
added for clarification. Mr. Sendra said he would talk to Ms. Jensen about this question.
Chairman Wood agreed.
Mr. Sendra stated that he has provided his business card to Corporal Radock so he can
provide Mr. Sendra with the Collective Bargaining Agreement so he could make sure he
is not giving him bad advice about trying to talk to the City.
VII. Plan Administrator Reports
a. Budget vs. Actuals Report/Calendar of Board Activities/Other
Administrative Matters
Mr. Kiilgore stated the City has provided the Board a calendar of activities for 2024 and
the report on expenditures compared to the budget. He wants to make sure to get
signatures from the Chairman on the Foster & Foster Administrative Services Agreement.
That does go into effect on January 15, 2024, and also a signature authorization with
Salem Trust. He wants to get the Chairman's name on the bank account as opposed to
having just Mr. Killgore's name. Foster & Foster has provided a letter which he would like
the Chairman to sign off on. It will be addressed to all the Board members to let them
POLICE PENSION BOARD
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JANUARY 16, 2024
PAGE 9
know about the change and invite them if they have any questions to contact Foster &
Foster. Mr. Killgore also asked that the Chairman sign a letter to notify all the vendors,
all the money managers, the attorneys' office, etc., that they are now in charge of the
payments.
Mr. Killgore stated it has been a pleasure working with the Board, and he will be updating
the new Finance Director once he/she is located.
Chairman Wood thanked Mr. Killgore for all his help with the Police Pension Plan matters
as well as Mr. Killgore's help with getting Chairman Wood familiar with matters having to
do with his position as Chairman of the Board.
Chairman Wood asked if Foster & Foster is going to provide the portal where the
individuals can log Into their accounts. Mr. Puscher stated he recalls that the Board did
agree to have them establish a portal. Mr, Killgore said the Board had previously had
authority to work with them on starting the portal.
Chairman Wood called for any public input. There was none.
Vill. Next Scheduled Ouarteriv Meetinqs
a. April % 2024, July 16, 2024, and October 15, 2024
IX. Adjourn
There being no further business, Chairman Wood adjourned the meeting at 6:42 p.m.
By: `� / ! ✓� Date: vL/ /A1 j lvzy
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