Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout08031982a CiO of Sebastian POST OFFICE BOX 12'/ ~ SEBASTIAN. FLORIDA ' TELEPHONE (30~) 58~53~0 (CER~iFIEDNAIL) JUl ~ 2~.~ 19,~2 Mr. Joh~ ~uincg (Bill~) Adams 580 $.W. ~a~ Harbor Terrace SebestSan, Florida 32958 ~t a Master, PlOt's LScense~E ~ve ~en ~pro~rl~ ~s~ to you on ~tO~r 8, 1982, is ~haC t~ certificate ~~tdon ~cerning ~our bg 'S~tSon ?-93, A hearSng ~o ~ete~ne t~ ESs~sStSon of ~s ~tt~ ~1I ~ ~ on ~esdaF , Au~st 3, ;dva,rd S~:~ast.f. dm ~n/tXu~tdGTl &ugust~ 2, 1~82 TO= Construction Board of the City of Sebastian FROM: Mr. Dale K. Howard 756 Breakwater ter. Sebastian, Florida Dear Sirs, I wish at this time tO file a formal complaint to your board. This complaint is in reguards to Jim Walter Homes who are licenced contractors in the City of Sebastian. On October 7, 1981 my wife and I purchased a home from Jim Walters to. be built on my property. The construction of house did not began until some- time around the third week in December, and was not completed until end of March, 1982. Since the time house was completed I have found several faults in the quality of house. I have contacted Jim Walter Homes in their office in Ft. Pierce, Florida and also their office in Tampa, Florida on several occasions and have not been able to get any results from the company to repair or fix faults in the construction of my house. Mr. A. Mayer, who is Building Official for the City of Sebastian has observed some .of the problems in the construction of my house. I am filing this complaint in hope that your board can assist me in having the problems taken care of that you are made aware of the problems Ihave had in dealing with the Jim Walters Company in reg~ards to my house. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance to the board. ! have attached a list of some of the faults in construction of my house. Respectfully, LIST OF FAULTS IN CONSTRUCTION OF 756 BREAKWATER TERRACE SF~BASTIAN, FLORIDA 1.) Front door does not fit properly and dUring rain water enters into house. 2.) Siding on west side if house is short in some places, 3.) Excessive chauking used on exterior of house. 4.) Trim on front porch is not secured. 5.) Back dOOr outside l~ght, has a lens that will not stay up~ 6.) Rafters on front porch are chopped in a ragid manner. 7.) Slats of wood on front porch are not same width or spaced properly. 8.) No endcaps on N/W corner of house and is allowing rain and bugs in behind siding~ 9.) Gaps where siding is butted together and allowing rain and bugs in. 10.) Louvers on ends Of house are not installed properly. 11.) Siding is chipped all around house and poor nailing of siding. 12.) Overspray on parts Of exterior of house and poor paint Job on front door. 13.) Front'~porch steps crooked a~d not even with landing of porch.- SEBASTIAN CONSTRUCTION BOARD - AUGUST 3, 1982 A DISCUSSION FOLLOWED REGARDING THE-iBHBGBT2FOR.'3THE SEBASTIAN CONSTRUCTION BOARD. MAYOR FLOOD RECOMMENDED THAT'THE BOARD ALLOCATE $2,000.00 FOR THE BOARD SECRETARY AND THAT IF THE BOARD SHOULD GO BEYOND THAT AMOUNT THAT THEY COULD AMEND THEIR BUDGET, PROVIDING 'IT IS WITHIN THE ..,INCOME. HE ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE SEBASTIAN CONSTRUCTION BOARD HA'S BEEN PUT UNDER A NEW ENTITY WITHIN THE CITY'S 82-83 FISCAL-._.-.YEAR ~UDGET CALLED_,!~CONSUMER AFFAIRS". ' ......... JOHN CALMES, SUGGESTED THAT THE INCOME FOR A 12 MONTH PERIOD BE VERIFIED FIRST AND THAT THE BOARD REQUEST A MONTHLY REPORT SHOWING INCOME AND EX- PENDITURES. MOTION BY JIM HARRIS, SECONDED BY JOHN CALMES, TO STAY AND FINISH THE BUDGET. CARRIED. AFTER REVIEWING LAST YEARS INCOME AND EXPENDITURES AND SOME LENGTHY DIS- CUSSION, THE BOARD RECOMMENDED THE FOLLOWING BUDGET FOR THE 1982-83 YEAR: LEGAL FEES ..................... $1,650.00 PRINTING, BINDING, POSTAGE........ .... $ 500.00 SALARY/SECRETARY . . .-... .... . .......$2,000.00 LEGAL ADVERTISEMENT .... -.... '........$ 50.00 TRAVEL EXPENSE'S ........ ..... ...... $1,500.00 OFFICE SUPPLIES/TAPES..... ....... .~ 500.00 EXAM PROCTORS .......... ' ..... [¥ 150.00]:iE~CH PROCTOR~ EACH EXAM -A WORKSHOP MEETING WAS SCHEDULED FOR AUGUST 17, 19'82, AT 7:30 P.M., IN CITY HALL AND A REGULAR MEET%NG SCHEDULE~-FOR THE BOARD WAS SET FOR THE FIRST TUESDAY OF EACH MONTH AT'4:00 'P.M'., IN CITY HALL AND NOT TO EXCEED 6:00 P.M. ED PALUCH, CHAIRMAN, iNSTRUCTED THE BOARD SECRETARY' TO CONTAC2 EACH BOARD MEMBER TO 'CONFIRM MEETING_.T~MES. THERE BEING NO!FFRTHER BUSINESS', MEETING ADJOURNED: 5:45 P.M. HINUTES OF SPEC. I~AL HEETING~,, SEBASTIAN CONSTRUCTION BDARD - j~LY 29,~ 1982 NEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER BY CHAIRHAN Efl~ARD PADUCH AT 3:05 PRESENT: CHAIRMAN EDWARD PALUCH, VICE CHAIRHAN JAHE$ HARRIS, HOUSTON TRIPP, DONALD LANGLOIS, JOHN CALM~S, CITY ATTORNEY DANIEL KILBRIDE. ABSENT: GREG .PALMER, CHRIS KIRRIE. CHAIRMAN PALUCH STATED THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS ~EF~RING OF THE SEBASTIAN CONSTRUCTION BOARD WAS TO INVESTIGATE THE CONDUCT OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL CONCERNING THE ISSUANCE OF A MASTER PLUHBER'S LICENSE TO BILLY ADAHS WITHOUT REQUIRING THE APPLICANT TO HEET THE CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 7-93, CODE OF ORDINANCES. THE BOARD AT THIS TINE BELIEVES IT HAS ALL THE RECORDS PERTAINING TO THE ISSUANCE OF THIS LICENSE. ~tR. KILBRIDE ADVISED ~4~. PALUCH THAT ALL TESTIMONY. BEFORE THE BOARD TODAY SHOULD BE UNDER OATH. MR. ARTHUR HAYER, BUILDING OFFICIAL, WAS ADHINISTERED THE OATH BY MR'. PALUCH. MR. PALUCH: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE COPIES THE BOARD HAS FROH THE FILES? MR. HAYER CHECKED OVER THE PAPERS. HR. KILBR_.IDE.: THESE NEED.'~TO BE PART OF THE RECORD: STANDARD APPLICATION FORH, INSTRUCTIONS TO APPLICANTS FOR A CERTIFI- CATE OF COHPETENCF, APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF COMPETENCY DATED OCTOBER 8, 1981, CONSISTING OF 8 PAGES, IS THAT CORRECT? MR. PAI;JCH: IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT. SECTION II OF PAGE 3 HAS BEEN COHPLETED, PERTINENT. PAGE 4 HAS BEEN COM- PLETED. PAGE 5 HAS WHAT INFORMATION IS APPLICABLE. PAGES 6, ?, 8 ARE BLANK. HR. KILBRIDE: ALSO, A TYPEWRITTEN NOTE CONTAINED IN THE FILE CONCER~ING THE EXAM. IT APPEARS TO BE BARBARA DeVANE'S SIGNATURE. IS THAT CORRECT? '(AFFIRNED · BY NOD). ATTACHED TO THAT IS A TYPED EXAM- QUESTIONS SIGNED BY JAHES CUNEINS - CONSISTING OF 2 PAGES. ORAL EXAM ANSWERS SIGNED BY JAMES CUHH1NS. LETTER FRO~ DEPARTMENT OF PROFESSIONAL REGULATION TO JOHN QUINCY ~, DATED DECE~ER 8, 1981. HANDWRITTEN QUESTIONS OF THE TEST. LETTERS FROW ARTHUR HAYER TO: ESTHER RYHER, BUILDING OFFICIAL, VERO BEACH, DATED DA~CEHBER 14, 1981, JERRY HARRIS, BUILDING DEPARTMENT, MOORE HAVEN, FLORIDA, DATED DECEMBER 14, 1981, GLEN HCNEW, BUILDING DEPARTMENT, BREVARD COUNTY, DATED JANUARY 14, 1.982. THAT'S THE COMPLETE FILE IN THIS HATTER?, MR. HAYER: YES, AS FAR AS I KNOW. HR. KILBRIDE: THE LAST 3 LETTERS ARE FILE COPIES ~IGNATURED. THESE AH~ COPIES .OF LETTERS THAT. YOU DID IN FACT SIGN AND SEND ON THE DATES THAT THEY. WERE ~"fPED? MR. HAYER: YES. MR. KILBRIDE: ARE THERE ANY OTHER LETTERS OF A' SIMILAR NATURE PERTA~G TO THIS HATTER? ''HR. HAYER: NOT THAT I KNOW OF. HR. KIL~IDE: ANY OTHER DOCUHENTS RELATING TO THIS MATTER? ~R. MAYER: NOT THAT I KNOff OF. HR.__ P. ALUC._ H_: WILL YOU HAKE A STATEHENT REGARDING THIS? ~_.._ _HAYER: YOU HEAN AS TO HOW IT CAME ABOUT, WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT I DID? MR. PALU~__: YES. MR. HAYER: MR. ADAMS CAME TO HE AND SAID HE WOULD LIKE TO GET A PLUMBING LICENSE. DUE TO HIS EDUCATION HE COULD NOT TAKE A TEST. HE TOLD HE WHAT HE DID IN SCHOOL, WHERE HE WENT. I INVESTIGATED AND FOUND OUT THAT WHAT .HE SAID WAS TRW, $0 WHAT I DID, I ASKED A GEN~ TO NAKE UP A ~ET OF QUESTIONS FOR HE. I FEE& THE HAN. I ASKED IS HOST QUALIFIED TO HAKE THEH. AFTER HE HADE THEM, AND THIEF A~E ON WRITTEN PAPER, IN ORDER FOR SOMEONE 'TO UNDERSTAND THEH , I HAD NY ~CR~TA~Y TYPE THEH , AND THEN I ASKED THE POLICE CHIEF IF HE WOULD SERVE AS A PROCTC~ AND HE DID. THE NAN ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS AND AFTER THAT I ISSUED HIM A LICENS~ WHICH I FELT I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. HR. KILBRIDE~ ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO STATE AT THIS TIHE? MR. HAYER: UNLESS YOU WANT TO ASK HE SOWETHING. ItLL BE ONLY TOO HAPPY TO ANSWER. HR. PALUCH: I FEEL THE BOARD HAS ALL THE INFOR$A%TIO~. DOES THE ~OARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? HR. CAL~ES: I HAVE NEVE~ TAKEN THE BLOCK EXAM. ARE THE ~UESTIONS SIMILAR AND THE SCOPE OF MATERIAL AS TO WHAT THE TEST IS ~OULDN'T ANSWER THAT.. THE ONLY THING I CAN. DO IS ASK THE GENTLEHAN WHO HADE THE TEST. THERE IS NO H & H OR H & R BLOCK. THE ORDINANCE SAYS H & H, BUT THERE IS NONE. THE CORRECT NAME IS BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES. I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHETHER THE QUESTIONS WOULD BE SIMILAR OR NOT. MAYBE THE GENTLEHAN WHO MADE UP THE TEST COULD ANSWER THAT. I HAVE NEVER TAKEN A MASTER PLUNBER'S OR SEEN A ~ASTER PLUMBER's FROM BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES. MR. CAL~.ES: IS IT PERTINENT WHO THE FELLOW WAS THAT MADE UP THE EXANINATION? MR. MAYER: I THINK SO, BECAUSE I GOT ONE OF THE MOST QUALIFIED PEOPLE IN THE STATE. HIS NAME IS' EDWARD BAL~E. HE iS WITH THE DEPART- MENT OF CO~UNITY AFFAIRS. HE WRITES ALL THE PLUMBING CODES FOR THE WHOLE STATE OF FLORIDA. MR. KILBRIDE: IS HE HERE TODAY? HR. MAYER: YES. HR. KILERIDE: IN LOOKING AT THE APPLICATION, I SEE IT WAS DATED OCTOBER 8, 1981 WHEN IT WAS' SUBMITTED TO YOU.' THE TEST WAS GIVEN ON OCTOBER 8, 1981, AND THE LICENSE WAS ISSUED THE SAME DAY. WAS THE EXAN PREPARED IN 1 DAY? HR. MAYER: NO. I HAD GIVEN THE GENTLEMAN AN APPLICATION AND I CONTACTED HR. BALME 4 OR 5 DAYS BEFORE MR. BAI24E GOT ME THE QUESTIONS. ON THE DAY HE GOT THEM I ASKED MY SECRETARY TO TYPE THEM. I ASKED THE CHIEF OF POLICE IF HE WOULD BE THE PROCTOR, WHICH I FIGURED YOU CAN'T FIND A BETTER QUALIFIED PROCTOR AND I CALLED.HR. ADAMS AND TOLD HIM THAT IF HE WOULD BRING THE APPLICATION IN, THE TEST WAS READY AND HE COULD TAKE IT. THAT'S WHY ALL 3 OCCURRED ON THE SAME DAY. HR. KILBRIDE: AS FAR AS CHIEF CUMINS' INVOLVEMENT, HE DID NOT MAKE UP THE EXAM, ~E ONLY ADMINIS- TERED? MR. MAYER: HE NEVER SAW IT UNTIL I HANDED IT TO HIM AND I HANDED IT TO HIM WHEN MR. ADAMS WALKED INTO HIS OFFICE. I ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD BE WILLING TO SERVE AS PROCTOR, HE AGREED, AND WHEN I BROUGHT HR. ADAHS INTO HIS OFFICE I BROUGHT THE TEST WITH HE. HR. CU;~4INS NEVER SAW IT PRIOR TO THAT. HR. KILBRIDE: WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE THE EXAM? MR. WAYER~ THE SAME DAY. ~4N. KILBRIDE: DID YOU EXAMINE IT BEFORE IT WAS ADMINISTERED? HR. MAYER: NO. MR. K_ILBRIDE: DID YOU EVALUATE IT AT ALL? HR. MAYER: NO. I DIDN'T THINK I HAD TO WHEN THE GENTLEMAN THAT WROTE IT FOR ME - I DIDN'T TH~K Zf~;;k~.~Li~gIE~; ~'B~WA;R~HTE WHAT HE DID. MR. KILBRIDE: SO BASED ON THE QUALIFICATIONS OF HR. BALHE YOU ASSUMED IT WAS FAIR AND COMPLETE? HR. HAYER: SURE. HR. KILBRIDE: I NEED TO MAKE THIS COMPLETE HERE. WHAT IS THE STANDARD APPLICATION FEE FOR APPLYING FOR A HASTER PLUMBER'S EXAM~ MR. MAYER: I BELIEVE $75. THAT'S TO TAKE THE TEST WITH BLOCK AND PAY FOR A PROCTOR. HR. KILBRIDE= WHAT DID HR. ADAMS PAY? MR. MAYER: HE PAID NOTHING. HE JUST PAID FOR HIS LICENSE LIKE EVERYONE Ei~gE. I DIDN'T FEEL, BECAUSE WE WEREN'T HIRING A PROCTOR FROM BLOCK WHO CHARGES $150., AND WE DIDN'T HAVE TO BUY THE TEST FROM BLOCK WHICH TESTS RUN FROM. ~18. TO $25., THAT WE WEREN'T PURCHASING EITHER ONE, I DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS NECESSARY TO HAVE A FEE. HR. KILBRIDE: SO YOU DIDN'T CHARGE HIM EVEN THE $75.?' HR..HA._'YER__: NO. HR. KILBRIDE: DID YOU TAKE ANY OTHER COMPENSATION? MR. MAYER: JUST HIS LICENSE FEE. MR. KILBRIDE: AND THAT WAS DEPOSITED? MR. HAYER= AFTER HE PASSED THE TEST HE PAID THE SECRETARY AND G~OT HIS LICENSE. HR. KILBRIDE: Hl%g THIS TEST BEEN ADNiNISTERED TO ANY OTHER PERSON? MR. MAYER: NO. HR. KIL~RIDE..: HAS ANY OTHER TEST FOR ANY OTHER LICENSE BEEN ;&DM~HISTERED""BY YOUR ~EPA~THENT. ?MR. MAYER: THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THiS OCCURRED FOR AN ORAL TEST FOR SOHEONE 'OF ~IS CAPABILI- TIES. HR. CALHES: IN REGARDS TO THE APPLICATION ITSELF, THERE SEEMS TO'BE ~INIMAL INFORMATION ON THE APPLICATION IN REGARDS TO THE APPLICANT'S RESUME AND FERIFI- CATION OF CONSTRUCTION EXPERIENCE. MR. ~AYE~: I BELIEVE HIS CONSTRUCTION EXPERI- ENCE IS ON THE PAGE THERE. MR. CALMES: THERE ARE 4 EHPLOYERB LISTED. HR. MAYER~ O.K. THERE IS 7, 9, ii YEARS. I BELIEVE BLOCK ONLY REQUIRES 4. HR. CALMES: THERE IS THE FINANCIAL STATEHENT THAT ~ NOT BE~N COMPLETED. wA_.: HAY~R~ HOST PEOPLE DO NOT. I THINK WE HAD MANY DISCUSSIONS ON THAT AT PREVIOUS TIMES WITH THE FEELING THAT IT WAS NOT A PREREQUISITE, BUT IF THAT'S WRONG IT'S ~4Y PROBLEM, -2- NOT ~4R. ADAHS'. ~R. ~S= YOU FELT YOU'~HAD ENOUGH INFORHATION AS F~ ~ HIS ~P~IENCE~ ~. ~R= ~S. I ~ ~ ~ ~ FOR 6 ~ ~ I W~ ~ OF THE W~ HE ~ ~E, ~0 ~ ~ F~, ~S PR~ ~E ~ ~CH P~HBI~G IN THE CITY OF SE~TI~ ~ ~ ~ P~~ ~~, ~Y~ ~. HE ~ PRO~LY ~~D 400 ~ 500 H~S ~D I'~ ~ H~ A ~~NT IN ~ OFFICE, SO I DI~'T THINK ~Y ~E E~~. I ~ T~ P~P~ HE H~ WORLD ~R, PE~~Y I ~ ~, ~D I ~ T~H ~EN H~ ~D ~R SO I ~LT ~ H~ ALL THE E~ERIENCE HE ~E~D. .PR~LY ~ ~ ~ ~EDED. ~. ~IDE: IN REF~NCE ~ THE DBCISI~ ~ G~ ~ ~L ~ - WITH THE ~K TEST, H~ IS THAT P~CED~ ~ED ~T~ IF HE C~E IN ~TH A NOeL ~P~TION, HE WOU~ ~EN ~K ~ T~ ~E B~K TEST~ ~. ~R= IF HE H~ A ~~ ~P~TION ~D W~D ~ T~ ~E B~K ~ST, ~S, .~E ~U~ FILL OUT ~E S~ ~P~CATION. ~ ~ST 3 TIWES A ~ ~ HE ~U~ HA~ ~ TA~ THE WITH B~K. ~. KI~IDE~ ~EN W~ ~E ~XT SCHEmeD ~ST F~ B~K~ ~. YOU HE~ FR~ THEN~ IT W~ BE J~F. ~. KI~iDE: SO NO~ ~E ~ HAD ~ WAIT UNTIL J~Y ~ TA~ THE ~ST. ~. ~R= ~S. ~'. KI~IDE= HE ~ HA~ PAID YOU $75. ~D Y~ W~ ~ ~GED WI~ B~ - ~. ~ ~ING A H~TER P~HBER HERE ~D A ~R ~EN HE ~GHT ~E ~ST OF H~E F~ ~YONE E~E ~ T~ A ~ST. ~. ~DE: ~ A ~ST ~HINIS~D IN J~Y~ ~. ~: ~RE. THE B~K ~ST, NOT HIS. ~ ~ IT J~Y, HAY ~D SEPTEH~R. THE NEXT ONE IS THE SE~ND ~EK IN SEPT--. ~. KI~IDE= ~ YOU REC~L F~H Y~R HEHORY IF ANY~E E~E ~K THE ~T~ P~'S ~ST J~Y~ ~. ~Y~= I C~N'T ~LL F~ ~T. I ~U~ ~K AT ~E ~S ~D FIND OUT. IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE OF ~EH. THEY TA~ THEH ~ ~ ~RIES. YOU ~AT HE H~ TArN ~E B~K P~I~SLYP ~. ~: NO.'~ Y~ W~T ~ ~K ~. ~, I ~N~t ~, BUT ~. ~ N~ FINISHED G~E ~H~L. I ~T ~N PEOP~ ~0 HA~ FINISHED ~E C~ ~HEND B~K OR A STATE CERTIFI~ TEST. I ~ ~E ~ IS ~~~. I ~OW HE ~ H~ ~ ~ ~E WORK B~AUSE I ~ HE H~ ~NE IT ~R ~Y ~. I ~ ~ H~ ~ES NOT ~ THE ~I~TI~ ~ PHYSIC~Y ~T~ING. i'H N~ SAYING HE C~'T ~ OR HE ~'T ~ITE. HE ~, BUT HE ~OT HA~ ~DE~T~ ~T ~ING. I'~ ~0~ THE GENT~ FOR ~I~ A FEW ~ ~D ~ HIS CIR- ~T~CES, I FELT WITH THE ~ I W~ G~G ~ ~ THE ~BT, I .C~N'T ~K ~R A BETTER PE~ON ~ ~ 1T ~D WITH ~ ~ I ~D ~ PR~ IT, · ~K FOR A BETTER P~SON. THE O~IN~CE SAYS ~L ~STS WI~ BE ~ B~K, I R~ZE ~AT I DID IS ~ONG, BUT I ~N'T FEEL IN ~ H~T ~AT I HURT ~DY. I THINK I DID ~YTHING OPEN ~D ABlE ~ ~ F~ ~ ~0 W~ I~OL~D WI~ IT AT THE TI~* I ~IZE PRO~BLY I SHOU~ HA~ CO~ ~ THE ~. I ~N'T ~ ~ETH~ ~EY W~ HA~ ~NE ~NG WI~ ~ OR NOT, BUT I N~ ~N ~GHT ~OUT ~ING ~ TH~ AT T~T TI~. ~. ~RIDE: ~ Y~ D~ ~ THE CONTENTS OF THE ~DIN~CE~ ~. ~Y~: NO~ ENTI~LY. I'~ ~ ~ OF THE O~iNAN~S ~D ~LF I THINK IF I ~ HA~ PHYSIC~Y ~ ~Y SEN~NCE ~ ~RY ~NE ~D S~IED IT, I ~Y ~OT HA~ ~E IT. I DI~T ~ IT ~AT ~GHLY. ~N~T ~INK ~YONE E~E ~.~ES ~TIL ~ ~A~ A P~B~. T~N' ~EY ~ ~ ~K AT IT. ~EN IT W~ ~GHT ~ ~ A~TION I ~A~Z~ ~T P~LY ~ · SAY AC~ING ~ THE ~IN~ IT ~ I~PER, B~ AT THE 'TI~ I DIDN'T F~L I W~ ~ING ~THING ~ONG. WR. KIL~RIDE: WITH REFERENCE TO THE LETTERS OF DECEMBER 14 - ~ LETTERS - AND THE LETTER OF JANUARY 14, THESE LETTERS WERE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ALLOWING HR. ADAWS ~0 SECURE A HASTER PLUHBER~S LICENSE IN THE COUNTIES THEY ~fB~tE SENT TO~ HR. HAYER: YES. I DIDN'T FEEL II~ ANYWAY WE WOULD HURT ANYONE WH~RETHIS HAN WE~T TO WORK. I.'"FEEL HE IS VERY COWI~T IN WHAT HE DOES. WR. KILBRIDE.: BY HIS ABILITY? HR. MAYER= YES. ~R. F~TLBR~DE~ YOU DO REALIZE THAT ZN..RACH OF THESE L~TTERS ~T DOES CONTAIN A~T READS AB FO~= '"THIS EAX~IN- ATION WA~ PREPARED, PROCTORED AND GRADED BY BLOCK AND A~SOCIATES. THE APPLiCANTtS NUMBER WAS P-i AND HE ACHIEVED A GRADE OF. 75~.# D~D '~U RNOW T~AT STATEWENT WAS INACCUR;~TE? ~4R. MAYER: YES. I KNOW I SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT, BUT I DID. HR. KILBRIDE: WE HAVE ASKED SOWE .OTHER PEOPL~ TO BE HERE THAT HAY BE CONCERNED WITH PART OF THIS, BUT ~R. MAYER 'HAS CLARIFIED THE RECORD AND~WADE A STATEMENT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. DO YOU NEED ;%NyFURTHER' INFORM- ATION? MR. CALHES: I WANT TO QUESTION HR, BALME. HR. EDWARD BALME WAS ADMINISTERED THE-OATH BY HR. PALUCH. MR. BAL~E: MY NA~E IS EDWARD BAAW~, ~fY ADDRESS IS 404 INDIAN RIFER DRIVE, SEBASTIAN. MR. KILBRIDE: AND YOUR OCCUPATION? MR. BALME~ TODAY I AH RETIRED. HR. KILBRIDE: YOUR PRE-VIOUS OCCUPATION? MR: ;gALME :' PLUMBING CONTRACTOR, PLUMB- ING SALES. MR. KILBRIDE~ FOR WHOM WERE YOU.EMPLOYED AS A PLUMBING CONTRACTOR? ~. ~'~. AB A PLUHBING CONTRACTOR I EHPLOYED HYSELF. HR. ~KIL~.~IDE: HOW HANY yEARS WERE YOU A PLUHBING CONTRACTOR? ~: IN 'THE STAT~ OF FL~RIDA OVER 25 YEARS, HAYBE 28 OR 29. HR: .KI~L~JD.E~ DU~IN~ THIS TITHE DID YOU SERVE ON SOME BOARD. MR. BAL~. : I HAVE SERVED ON VERY FEW BOARDS. ~E= WHAT BOARDS DID YOU SERVE ON? MR. ~: I SERVED ON A BOARD ZN~DEERFiELD,.AN IN- QUIRY BOARD SUCH AS IS SITTING RIGHT NOW. HR. ;fILBRIDE: WERE YOU EVER EHPLOYED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS AT ANY TIME? MR. ~ I' SERVED A TERM ON THE STATE BOARD OF CODES AND BUILDING STANDARDS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF COHMUNITY AFFAIRS. I WAS NOT EMPLOYED. THIS WAS, AN APPOINTIVE JOB, EXP~SES ONLY. HR. KILBRID... E: SO YOU WERE NOT STAFF, YOU WERE A BOARD HEMBER? HR. B~L~E: JUST A ;~OARD MEMBER. MR. KILBRIDE.- THE STAFF MADE RECO~NENDATIONS~'TO THE BOARD AND THEY - WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE BOARD? HR. BAZi4E: THE PURPOSE OF' THE BOARD WAS TO INTERPRET AND CLARIFY THE CODES AND THE BUILDING STANDARDS i~' THE STATE OF FLORIDA. HR. KILBRIDE: DID YOU PREPARE 'PLUMBING CODES? ~...~: ' I WAS CHai OF CO..rTTEX THAT WENT THrUmS. THE COMRmTE CmmZFY CODES FOR THE STATE OF FmRIDA PUmam co E rs UNDER THE DEPARTHENT OF HEALTH. 60~ OF. THE STATE OF FLORIDA GOES UNDER SOUTHERN STANDARD BUILDING CODE WHICH IS NOT ACTUALLY OUR STATE CODE. THE PLUMBING CODE YOU WERE INVOLVED IN, IS IT'.A UNIFORM CODE OR ~ODEL CODE? ~R. BALME: A MODEL CODE. MR. K~LHRIDE: THEN THE CITIES OR COUNTIES COULD ADOPT? HR. BAI. J4E= YES. MR. CALHES: HAVE YOU BEEN INVOLVED WITH TESTING PROCEDURES BEFORE? HR. BALME: ONLY THROUGH OUR COHPANY'. I HAVE TAKEN THE EXAMS MYSELF OF COURSE SEVERAL TIHES. BLOCK EXAH WASN'T THERE WHEN I WAS BEING-EXAHINED. WHEN THE BLOCK EXAM FIRST CAME INTO EXISTBNCE A FEW YEARS AGO I HAD ~ BOYS, 2 SONS-IN-LAW AND 1 SON WORKING .WITH ~E. ~I THOUGHT IT WAS A PRB~TF= GOOD DEAL SO I HAD EACH ONE TAKE IT. THEY ALL PASSED. IT'S AN OPEN BOOK EXAm: IT'S FOR A YOUNG PERSON. THE LANGUAGE TODAY IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN IT W~B. 40 YEARS AGO. HR. CAIJ4ES: IN YO~OPINION DO YOU FEEL THAT THE TEST THAT YO~ WROTE WOULD COVER THE INTENSITY AND SCOPE THAT SOMEBODY WITH THE BLOCK TEST%~4IGHT FACE? _~WR.._. ._BAL~E: NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT WO~LD. WHAT ~R. HAFER' ASF, ED ME TO GIVE WAS 2~ QUESTIONS ON PLUMBING WHICH WERE PARTLY FRON THE EXA~ ~ PARTLY FROH THE CODE' BOOK AND ALL OF THEH WERE ANSWERED FROM THE BOOKS. ZN THE BLOCK TEST THERE CERTAINLY ARE A LOT OF OTHER PARTS '- ~OCIAL SECURITY ACTS, INSD1~A~;CE QUIREMENTS OF BUSINESS GOING ON, WHICH I DI~N~.~T RAVE.ANY '~UESTIONS NOW TO CLARIFY SOMETHING HE-~AID, THE TEST THAT BLOCK ~INISTERS FOR M~2;TER~ PLUMBERS, WHICH IS WHAT WE 1SBU~, DOESN'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. IN IT. HR_. KILBRIDE: WHY IS THAT? HR. PALUCH: WE THE ADMINISTRATIVE PORTION-OF' THE' EXAH AT THIS TIME ~ IT I$. NOT.A -4- MR. CAZ24ES: TO CARRY IT JUST A STEP FURTHER. THE PORTION MR. ADAMS WAS QUESTIONED ON, WHICH WAS PLUMBING, WOULD THAT BE EQUIVALENT IN SCOPE AND INTENSITY TO THE BLOCK EXAMINATION FOR PLUWBING? THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS? MR. BAI.~= TECHNICALLY, I'D SAY THAT PART OF iT WOULD BE, YES. A GREAT DISCUSSION COULD BE HELD ON THAT - QUESTIONS DIRECTORY TO PLUMBING AND THE SCOPE OF PLUMBING. THERE COULD BE HANY, HANY IDEAS OF THAT BETWEEN THE CODE THAT'S USeD IN SEBASTIAN, OR VE~D BEACH OR PALM BEACH, OR THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE iN HREVARD COUNTY. THESE ARE ALL COVERED IN THE BLOCK TEST. MR. LANGLOIS: IN YOUR OPINION SOMEONE PASSED THE TESTING YOU WROTE OUT, WOULD YOU CONSIDER. THEM TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF PLUMBING? MR. BALME: I WOULD SAY YES. THEY WOULD HAVE A KNOWLEDGE OF PLUMBING, BUT OF COURSE 1 HOUR EXAMINATION IS FAR FROM A 6 TO 8 HOUR EXAMINATION. MR. KIL~RIDE: IN MAKING YOUR TEST DID YOU HAKE ANY REFERENCE TO THE BLOCK EXAM? DID YOU LOOK AT IT? ~. . BALMS: I DID SOME, YES. THE DAY BEFORE I CANE UP TO SEBASTIAN I WAS IN BOCA RATON AND I HAD 4 MASTER PLUMBERS SITTING AT THE DESK WITH ME. ALL OF THEM HAD PASSED THE BLOCK EXAM THE PREVIOUS YEAR. EACH ONE OF THEM HAD THEIR BOOK WITH THEIR MARK BECAUSE BLOCK IS AN OPEN BOOK EXAM. I QUESTIONED EACH ONE AS TO WHAT THEY THOUGHT WOULD BE THE MOST PERTINENT QUESTIONS TO BE ~hg;~ED IN A SHORT EXAM. THERE WAS NO HARDSHIP FOR ME TO DO THIS BECAUSE WE WERE ALL MEETING THERE IN MY OFFICE. MR. KIL~RIDE~ NORMALLY HOW MUCH TIME WOULD A BLOCK EXAM TAKE? M~. BAI. ME: I UNDERSTAND THEY'RE ALLOWED 6 TO '8 HOURS. MR. KILBRIDE: OTHER THAN THE ADMINISTRATIVE QUESTIONS WOULD YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY QUESTIONS THEY NORMALLY ASK? MR.. BALME: NO ~ REALLY WOULDN'T. I DIDN' T ASK THE BOYS ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS. SOME OF THEM ~ASSED IT AND GOT OUT OF THERE IN LESS THAN 4 HOURS. SOME HAVE BEEN THERE THE LIMIT AND HAVE GONE BACK OVER THEIR PAPERS. MR. KILBRIDE: THE EX'J4 QUESTIONS THAT YOU PRO- POSED - DID YOU SAY THAT YOU DECIDED THAT 25 QUESTIONS WERE SUFFICIENT? MR. BALME: MR. HAYER ASKED ME TO MAKE 25 QUESTIONS. MR. KILHRIDE: YO~ DID NOT TAKE PART IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF THIS TEST? MR.__ BALME: NO. MR~ K_ILBRIDE: WAS THIS DESIGNED TO BE AN OPEN BOOK TEST? MR. BALME: I DON'T KNOW. HR. KILBRIDE: AS FAR AS YOU WERE CONCERNED, IT COULD HAVE BEEN ADM'I'NISTERED OPEN BOOK OR NOT, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW. MR. JANES CUMMINS WAS ADMINISTERED THE OATH BY MR. PALUCH. MR. CUMMINS: I AM JAMES R. CUMMINS, CHIEF OF POLICE, CITY OF SE~STIAN. MR. HARRIS: WAS IT AN OPEN ~OOK TEST? ~R.~ CUMMINS: THERE WAS NO ~90K PRESENT. MR._.HARRIS: HOW LONG DID THE TEST TAKE? .~R. CUMMINS: AS I RECALL NOT TOO AWFULLY LONG, MAYBE A ~ HOUR, 45 MINUTES. MR. HARRIS: YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THE TEST BEFORE GIVING IT? IT WAS ABOUT 30 TO 45 MINUTES? MR. CUMMINS: AS I RECALL. IT'S BEEN A WHILE AGO AND I REALLY DIDN'T THINK TOO'MUCH ABOUT IT. MR. HARRIS: DID YOU GRADE IT? MR. CUMMINS: I DID NOT GRADE IT. I JUST INDI- CATED WHETHER iT WAS ANSWERED CORRECTLY OR INCORRECTLY. MR. HARR~ IS: AS I RECALL IT WAS 100~ CORRECT? MR, CUMMINS: I BELIEVE IT WAS, YES. MR. KILBRI~DE.: THE COPY WE HAVE HERE SHOWS ORAL EXAM ANSWERS. THIS IS DUN SIGNATURE ON THE BOTTOM OF THIS? MR. CUN~4INB: THAT'S CORRECT. MR. KiLBRIDE: THESE ANSWERS WERE SEPARATE FRO~ THE TEST QUESTIONS? HOW DID THEY GET ATTACJ;mD? MR. CUMMINS: THIS IS THE WAY IT WAS GIVEN"~TO ME - THru QUESTION SHmET AND THE,ANsweR SHEET'. ' I WOULD ASK THE QUESTION AND' THEN CO;~PARE THE ANSWER, BECAUSE I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT PLUMBING. MR. KILBRIDE: DID YOU WRITE DOWN MR. ADAMS' ANSWERS? MR. CUMMINS: NO. MR. KILBRIDE: YOU JUST AISTENED TO WHAT HE SAID, IF YOU THOUGHT IT WAS CLOSE ENOUGH, HE DIDN'T SAY IT WORD FOR WORD WHAT THE ANSWERS WERE, BUT IF IT SOUNDED RIGHT AND YOU COHPARED THE ANSWER, YOU SAID IT WAS O.K. MR. CIfMHINS: THAT'S RIGHT. ME. KILBRIDE: YOU DIDN'T MAKE A TAPE OF IT? MR. ~INS: NO. -5- MR. PALUCH: HILLY, WOULD YOU CARE TO HAKE A STATEMENT? HR. ADAMS: I DON'T KNOW .WHAT ELSE TO SAY. YOU'VE GOT IT ALL THERE. HR. KILBRIDE: ~. FROMANG, YOU'RE HERE - HR. FROMANG: ItM STEVE FROMANG, GENTLEMEN, AND I'M HERE TO REPRESENT BILLY ADAMS. AT THIS TIME I THINK YOU ALL HAVE MORE THAN WHAT YOU NEED. I THINK THE HAYOR WANTS TO HAKE A STATEMENT. HR. CALMES: IS THIS APPLICATION A PART OF OUR ORDINANCE? HR. K_ILBRIDE: IT'S A STANDARD APPLICATION. SECTION 7-93 OF THE CODE STATES:"CERTIFICATION. (a) TO OBTAIN A CERTIFICATE AN APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT AN APPLICATION IN WRITING TO THE BOARD CONTAINING THE STATEHENT THAT THE APPLICANT DESIRES THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE AND THE CLASS OF CERTIFICATE DESIRED ON A FORM CONTAINING THE INFORMATION PRESCRIBED BY THE BOARD AND SHALL BE ACCOMPANIED BY THE FEE FIXED BY THIS ARTICLE." THIS IS THE STANDARD THAT PROVIDES THAT THE FORM BE ADOPTED. HR. KILBRIDE: MR. MAYOR? MAYOR FLOOD: YES. SWEAR ME IN. HR. KILBRIDE: ARE YOU GOING TO TESTIFY OR ARE YOU JUST GOING TO - MAYOR FLOOD: WELL, IF THEY WANT TO ASK ME SOME QUESTIONS WHEN I GET THROUGH. MOST OF IT IS A STATEMENT, I GUESS, AND FOR THE RECORD, I WAS APPROACHED BY~ARTIE SOME MONTHS PRIOR TO GIVING THE EXAH. HE DID ASK ME WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT AN ORAL EXAM. I TOLD HIM THAT FROM MY PAST EXPERIENCES, AND I AM AN ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR, I WENT THROUGH THE UNION RANKS AND I HAD SOME PEOPLE THAT I WORKED WITH WHO DID NOT EVEN HAVE A FIRST GRADE EDUCATION. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY HAD TO SIGN THEIR.NA~ES WITH AN X ON THEIR PAYCHECKS. THE CITY OF GAINESVILLE AND OTHER PLACES GAVE AN ORAL EXAM SO PEOPLE CAN WORK IN THEIR CITIES. THIS IS GOING BACK TO THE SiXTiES. SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE I KNOW THAT BLOCK HAD AN ORAL' EXAM. SOME OF THE SHARTEST PEOPLE I'VE SEEN IN MY TRADE DID NOT HAVE A FIRST GRADE EDUCATION. I TOLD ARTIE I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG IN TAKING AN ORAL EXAM. IF BLOCK GAVE AN ORAL EXAM OR iF ONE WAS AVAILABLE, WE SHOULD HAKE IT AVAiLaBLE TO ANYONE WHO CANNOT READ OR WRITE OR CANNOT COMPREHEND THE TEST. I THINK I'M A HALF-WAY INTELLIGENT PERSON. I'M NOT TOO SURE OF THAT SOMETIME, BUT I CAN SIT. DOWN AND TAlfE THE TEST - THE SAME EXAM THAT YOU'WOULD TAKE FOR 6 HOURS - I GUARANTEE THAT I COULD DO IN AN HOUR AND A HALF BECAUSE I CAN TALK A LO~ FASTER IF YOU ASK ME VERBALLY. WHEN YOU TRY TO COMPARE A WRITTEN EXAM WITH AN ORAL EXAM, THERE'S NO CO~PARISON TIME-WISE. I BASE MY THEORY ON IT'S THE ABILITY OF THE PERSON WHETHER HE CAN DO THE JOB OR NOT. I DID NOT TELL ARTIE TO GO OUT AND GET AN EXAM OUTSIDE OF BLOCK, BUT I DID FEEL THAT THIS CITY - AND I WILL SAY THIS, THAT ARTIE SHOULD HAVE COME BEFORE THE EOARD AND TOLD THEM THAT HE WANTED TO GIVE AN EXAM. THIS IS WHERE I THINK ARTIE FOULED UP. BUT I THINK IF THIS CITY IS GOING TO SIT BACK, OR IF THIS BOARD IS GOING TO SIT BACK, AND SAY WE ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE ORAL EXAMS. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATIONS. I HAVE ONE AND I STILL HAVE TROUBLE WITH WRITTEN EXAHS, 'BUT YOU GIVE WE AN ORAL EXAH AND I'LL PASS ANYTHING YOU THROW AT ME. WHEN I TOOK THE BLOCK EXAM SOME YEARS I F~ADE 72~73 ON IT. IF THAT SAME EXAM HAD BEEN ORAL I WOULD HAVE MADE 100~ PROBABLY. I JUST WANT TO LET THE BOARD KNOW THAT THE MAYOR OF THIS CITY DID KNOW THAT THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT AN ORAL EXAM. I DIDN'T GIVE MY BLESSING FOR HiM TO GO AND GET AN OUTSIDER. I DID TELL ARTIE THOUGH THAT ANYONE, AND I STILL FEEL THIS, AND i"LL TELL THE BOARD TODAY THAT IF SOHEBODY ELSE DOWN THE LINE COHES INTO THE CITY, I THINK YOU SET UP PROVISIONS FOR, IF YOU WANT TO HAKE IT BY BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES, FINE, BUT I THINK THERE SHOULD BE PROVISIONS PUT IN THE ORDINANCE THAT SOHE PEOPLE CAN TAKE AN ORAL EXAM, BECAUSE AGAIN, GENTLEHEN, YOU CAN'T COMPARE ~DUR$. A 6 HOUR WRITTEN EXAM CAN SOMETIMES BE DONE IN AN HOUR AND A HALF, 2 HOURS ORALLY. I DIDN~ T WANT ARTIE TO STAND ALONE LIKE BE HAD NOT. DISCUSSED IT WITH ANYONE. I DID NOT AUTHORIZE IT, BUT I DID KN~ A~OUT IT. AS A HATTER OF FACT, UNTIL HR. PALUCH TOLD HE HIMSELF ON THE MONDAY AFTER ALL THE STUFF UP AT BREVARD HAPPENED THAT IT WAS NOT BLOCK EXAM, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I KNEW ABOUT IT. I AM PART WRONG, BUT AS FAR AS AN ORAL EXAM, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT AND I THINK WE SHOULD HAKE PROVISIONS IN OUR ORDINANCE TO ALLOW -6- THIS IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO RUN INTO THIS ~ORE AND MORE AND I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR AN ORAL EXAH. IT DOESN'T HEAN THEY DON'T KNOW THE MATERIAL BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE CAn'T PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER. MR. FROMANG: QUITE FRANKLY, BILLY ADAMS CONTACTED ME TODAY AND INSTRUCTED HE TO COME BY AND SIT IN ON THIS MEETING. FROM DISCUSSING THIS MATTER WITH BILLY, I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT HE HAS RELIED UPON THE GOOD 'FAITH AND THE INTENTIONS OF THIS TEST AND HE HAS INCURRED A LOT OF EXPENSE. HE HAS TAKEN ON CONTRACTS BASED ON THE FACT THAT HE HAS RELIED IN GOOD FAITH ON THE RECEIPT OF THE LICENSE HE NOW BELIEVES HE HOLDS AND I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT ON THIS BOARD RIGHT NOW TO ENDORSE IT. HR. KILBRIDE~ HR. CHAIRMAN, IF I CAN, I THINK FOR THE BOARD WE NEED TO CLARIFY WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY. AS HR. PALUCH STATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HEARING, THE HEARING TODAY IS AN INQUIRY OR INVESTIGATION INTO THE ISSUANCE OF THE PERMIT. MR. ADAMS WAS ASKED TO BE HERE ~ECAUSE IT INVOLVED HIM. AND BECAUSE HE MIGHT POSSIBLY BE A WITNESS. WE'RE NOT HERE TO CONSIDER THE SUS- PENSION OR REVOCATION OF MR. ADAMS' LICENSE AT THIS TIME. HE'S ENTITLED TO HIS OWN HEARING. OBVIOUSLY WHAT YOU'VE HEARD HERE HAS AN INFLUENCE ON THAT AND YOU MAY WANT TO PURSUE THAT FURTHER, BUT YOUR FIRST OBLIGATION HERE IS TO DETERMINE IF YOU - YOU'RE HERE FOR THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND HIS CONDUCT CON- CERNING THE ISSUANCE OF THE LICENSE. YOUR JOB TODAY FIRST OF ALL IS TO MAKE A DETERMINATION OF WHETHER YOU'RE SATISFIED WITH THE INVESTIGATION AND IF YOU ARE, THEN YOU CAN CLOSE IT. THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IS EHPLOYED BY THE CITY AND WORKS DIRECTLY FOR THE CITY COUNCIL AND YOU HAVE NO DIRECT AUTHORITY, BUT SINCE THIS IS YOUR AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY TO INSURE THAT THE LICENSES ARE ISSUED PROPERLY AND THAT THEY'RE PERFORMED PROPERLY, YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE RECOMMENDA- TIONS TO THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL CONCERNING THE RESULTS O~ THIS iNVESTiGATiON. IS THAT CLEAR? HR. PALUCH: DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID? OUR POWERS AND DUTIES ARE SPELLED OUT IN THE ORDINANCE. MR. ATTORNEY, WOULD YOU INSTRUCT THE BOARD WHAT'S EXPECTED OF US NEXT? HR. FJLBRIDE: THE FIRST THING TO DECIDE WHETHER THE BOARD IS SATISFIED WITH THE EVIDENCE IT'S HAD TODAY. HR. PALUCH: CAN WE DO THAT RIGHT NOW? MR. KILBRIDE: YES YOU CAN. IF IT IS, 'THEN YOU CAN CLOSE THE INVESTIGATION. MR. PALUCH: I'D LIKE i~ ROLL CALL. ARE WE SATISFIED WITH THE INVESTIGATION? HR. LANGLOIS: I AM~ HR. TRIPP: WHAT ARE YOU ASKING FOR EXACTLY? HR. KILBRIDE: DO YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT INFORMATION BEFORE YOU TO FEEL THAT YOU HAVE THE FULL FACTS? HR. TRIPP: YES. HR. PALUCH: YES. MR. HARRIS: I FEEL SATISFIED. HR. CALMES: YES. HR: KILBRIDE: THE SECOND FEELING IS - O.K. THIS REPORT SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL. NOW IF THE BOARD DESIRES, AS I SAID YOU HAVE NO DIRECT AUTHORITY OVER THE BUiLDiNG OFFICIAL, BUT YOU DO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS AREA AND IF YOU FEEL THAT THE BOARD WOULD WANT TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ~S FAR AS WHAT ACTION, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DISCIPLINARY ACTION.SHOULD BE TAKEN, IF ANY. iF YOU FIND THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED OR HAS NOT OCCURRED, THEN YOU CAN RECOMMEND WHATEVER YOU WANT. MR. PALUCH: O.K., GENTLEMEN, IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THE FINDINGS INDICATE THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED. HR. HARRIS: YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A VOTE ON THAT. YOU HIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE THAT FEELS THAT WAY. HR. PALUCH: O.K. HOW WOULD YOU MAKE A MOTION ON THAT~ HR. KILBRIDE: THE VIOLATION SPECIFICALLY IS THAT A LICENSE WAS ISSUED FOR A MASTER PLUMBING LICENSE TO MR. BILLY ADAMS ALTHOUGH HE WAS NOT REaR]IRED TO TAKE AN EXAMINATION ISSUED BY BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES OR AN EQUIVALENT TEST APPROVED BY THE BOARD"~ AN APPROVED SUBSTITUTE. HR. LANGLOiS: YOU'RE SAYING THE VIOL~TION'.IS THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T COME BEFORE THE BOARD FOR DISCUSSION~ I WANT TO GET THIS RIGHT. - 7- ~R. KILBRIDE: SECTION 7-93 (b) STATBS THAT AN APPLICANT SHALL TAJfE A WRITTEN EXAMINATION ABOUT HIS FITNESS FOR A CERTIFICATE IN THE CATEGORY FOR WHICH APPLICATION IS MADE. IT SAYS FURTHER THAT THE EXAMINATION SHALL BE THE H.&H. BLOCK PROCTOR TEST AND/OR AN EQUIVALENT TEST~ ~S MAY BE DETERMINED BY THE BOARD. A PASSING GRADE ON THE EXAMINATION IS 75~. THE EVIDENCE INDICATES THAT THE TEST WAS NOT ADMINISTERED, BUT A LICENSE WAS ISSUED. ANY ~THER VIOLATIONS THAT YOU FEEL WERE INCURRED AS CONTAINED IN SECTION 7-93. ~4R. CALHES: THE LETTERS TO THE VARIOUS COUNTIES IS A FORM LETTER, BUT IT DID MISREPRESENT TO INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, BREVARD COUNTY AND MOOREHAVEN , FLORIDA, THE BASIS ON WHICH MR. ADAMS RECEIVED HIS LICENSE. I THINK THIS OUGHT TO BE STATED. HOTION BY MR. CALMES, SECONDED BY MR. TRIPP, THAT FINDINGS OF FACT ARE THAT VIOLATION HAS OCCURRBD. VIOLATION IS: (1) THAT LICENSE WAS ISSUED ALTHOUGH PROPER EXAMINATION WAS NOT ADMINISTERED; (2) THAT BUILDING OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TO 'OTHER BUILDING DEPARTMENTS IN BREVARD AND INDIAN RIVER COUNTY AND MOOREHAVEN, FLORIDA, THAT MR. ADAMS HAD SUCCESSFULLY PASSED BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES EXAM AND WAS QUALIFIED AS A MASTER PLUMRER. AMENDMENT MR. L~NGLOIS: WOULD LIKE TO ADD/THAT VIOLATION ON THE TEST WAS NOT UNDERSTANDING THE ORDINANCE, THAT HE DID NOT COME BEFORE THE BOARD. MR. KILBRIDE: THAT COULD BE UNDER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT IT WAS AN UNINTENTIONAL VIOLATION. MR. CALMES AMENDED THE MOTION. 'MR. TRIPP DID NOT AGREE TO AMEND HIS SECOND. MR. KILBRIDE: SINCE MR. TRIPPMADE THE SECOND, HE HAS TO AGREE. WE CAN ENTERTAIN THAT ASA SEPARATE MOTION. THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT CANNOT BE ADDED AT THIS TIME. MR. FROHANG: FIRST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE ISSUE WITH THE HOTION AS iTS PRESENTED IN SEVERAL R~SREC~S~ (1) THAT THE PROPER EXAMINATION WAS NOT GIVEN. I THINK YOU PUT IT IN TERMS OF AN EXAMINATiON AS SPECIFIED BY THAT ORDINANCE WHICH AS ~4~. MAYER POINTED OUT, THAT THE H.&H. EXAM AS WRITTEN THERE. DOES NOT EXIST. iTfS BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES EXAM SO WHETHER IT'S A Cr~.PJCALERROR OR NOT, THAT'S ONE THING. (2) THE EXAM THAT WAS GIVEN' BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL I BELIEVE WAS A PROPER EXAM. IT MAY NOT BE IN TERHS OF THE FACT THAT IT WAS PRODUCED IN THE PRINTING PRESS OF BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES. THE SECOND PART OF IT iS THAT IN HIS LETTER I THINK IT'S A CONJUNCTIVE. IT SAYS: "PASSED THE H.&H. PART" WHICH AS ARTIE SAID WAS SOMEWHAT MIS-STATED, BUT THE OTHER CONJUNCTIVE PART WAS: "AND IS QUALIFIED AS A MASTER PLUMBER". I DON'T THINK THAT IS A MIS-STATEMENT SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THAT THE MOTION BE MADE MORE SPECIFIC. MR. CAIJ4ES: I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO AMEND THE MOTION DELETING THE PORTION REFERRING TO THE QUALiFICATIONS AS A MASTER PLUMBER BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THE LETTERS HAKE A STATEMENT AS TO THAT. MR. PALUCH ASKED THE CiTY CLERK TO READ ~ACK THE ORIGINAL MOTION. CLERK: (1) THAT LICENSE WAS ISSUED - MR. PALUCH: STOP. THAT'S THE FIRST PART. WE ALL AGREE THAT THAT'S GOOD. GO ON. CLERK: "ALTHOUGH PROPER EXAWINATION WAS NOT ADMINISTERED - MR. PALUCH: ADD THIS: ACCORDING TO BECTION 7-93. KILBRiDE: ANY OBJECTIONS TO THAT? CLERK: (2) BUILDING OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TO OTHER BUILDING DEPARTMENTS IN BREVARD AND INDIAN RIVER COUNTY AND ~OOREHAVEN, FLORIDA, THAT MR. ADAMS HAD SUCCESSFULLY PASSED BLOCK AND ASSOCIATES EXAM AND WAS QUALIFIED AS A MASTER PLUMBER. MR. PALUCH: WE CAN'T AMEND THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE DID. MR. CALMES: I WOULD LIKE JUST TO SAY THAT IT'S BAgED ON THE FACT~ THAT HE DIDN'T FO~ THE 7-93 PROCEDURE. IN THAT WAY IT~ NOT QUALIFIED AS A HASTER PLUMBER. ~IR. PALU~ CH: THEN THE HOTION WiTH THE ADDITION OF THE ORDINANCE NUi4~ER SHOULD STRAIGHTEN THE WHOLE THING OUT. MR. CAL~E$= YES. MR. PALUCH: CALL FOR A ROLL CALL VOTE. MR. KILBRIDE~ BEFORE YOU BEGIN, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE COMMENTS CONCERNING YOUR VOTE, WHY YOU'RE VOTING THIS WAY OR ANYTHING THAT YOU PERSONALLY FEEL, PERHAPS THIS WOULD HE THE APPROPRIATE TIME. MR. LANGLOIS= I HAVE TO VOTE YEA ON IT ONLY BECAUSE IT IS IN VIOLATION OF 7-93 AND I FEEL THAT MR. MAYER PROBABLY DID NOT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH 7-93 THROUGH IGNORANCE. MR. TRIPP~ YES. HR. PALUCH= YES. MR. HARRIS~ YES. MR. CALMES= YES.' MR. PALUCH= SO ~OVED. I~R. KILBRIDE: DOES ANYONE ELSE WISH TO HAKE ANY OTHER MOTIONS CONCERNING FINDINGS OF FACT IN REGARDS TO THIS MATTER~ ~R. PALUCH: I SHOULD LET HY PERSONAL FEELINGS BE KNOWN. I FEEL THAT ARTIE THOUGHT HE WAS ~OING WHAT WAS RIGHT IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE. HOWEVER, I DO FEEL THAT THE INFERENCE THAT THE BOARD WOULD NOT BE WILLiNG TO ASSIST - I DON'T GO ALONG WITH THAT STATEMENT. I BELIEVE THE MAYOR MADE THAT STATE~ENT IN A ROUND-ABOUT WAY. I THINK THIS BOARD HAS BENT OVER BACKWARDS EVERY TIME WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT ANYTHING AND TO COH~ UP WITH A SOLUTION. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER DEALT WITH US CAN SAY WE"VE BEEN THE LEAST BIT UNCOOPERATIVE OR OFFENSIVE OR ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT. WEPVE SPENT ALMOST TOO MUCH TIME PREPARING THIS ORDINANCE AND OBVIOUSLY WE PUT IN MORE THAN WE HAD TO. I SIT HF~E AFTER THE FACT AND iNTERPRET ~WORD FOR WORD WHICH IS THE ONLY WAY IT CAN BE INTERPRETED. OUR OBLIGATION IS TO READ IT AS IT'S WRITTEN. I THINK I'M RIGHT IN THAT. MR. KILBRIDE: YES. I'M AFRAID SO. THE HAYOR HAS FJ~DE A RECOMMENDATION AS FAR AS FUTURE CONDUCT. TO LOOK INTO IT AND POSSIBLY COME UP WITH AN ORAL EXAM THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. IF THE BOARD WISHES TO DO THAT, YOU CAN DO THAT IN THE FUTURE, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE HERE FOR TODAY. MR. CAIJ4ES: I PERSONALLY FEEL AND AM SYHPATHETiC TOWARDS SOMEBODY THAT CANNOT TAKE THE TEST AND WE SHOULD HAKE AVAILABLE AN ORAL EXAM. HOWEVER, I THINK THAT THE ORAL EXAM SHOULD BE VERY SIMILAR IN NATURE TO .WHAT IS NORMALLY GIVEN AND ACCEPTED BY THiS BOARD AND BY THIS COMM{UNITY AS AN EXAMINATION. I FEEL PERHAPS THAT ARTIE DID THIS UNINTENTINALLY, BUT I THINK THAT IN CASES WHERE THERE IS ANY DEVIATION AT ALL FROM OUR NORMAL WAY OF LICENSING PEOPLE SHOULD COME BEFORE THIS BOARD FOR DISCUSSION AND SOME DECISION MAKING. I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE COHPLETENESS OF THE APPLiCATION. IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN APPLICATION.'."FOR CERTIFICATION, THEN I BELIEVE THE APPLICATION OUGHT TO BE COMPLETE. I BELIEVE IT CALLS FOR IN OUR ORDINANCE SOHE HETHOD OF TRYING TO JUDGE SOHEBODY'S FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY AND I DON'T 'BELI~%'E IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, OR IF THIS IS STANDARD PRACTICE, THE CORPLETENESS OF THE APPLICATION, THAT THOSE DECISIONS CAN BE Ha. DE. EITHER WE FILL OUT THE APPLICA- TION COHPLETE, AND AS FAR AS PREVIOUS WORK EXPERIENCES, RECEIVE CERTIFICATION OR SOME SORT OF STATEMENT FROM PRIOR EHPLOYERS SO THAT APPROPRIATE DECISIONS CAN BE HADE. OTHERWISE, LET'S NOT INCLUDE IT IN THE APPLICATION AND JUST REQUIRE THE BASIC INFOR2~ATION THAT'S BEING FILLED OUT. I'M NOT TRYING TO DEMEAN MR. MAYER AT ALL IN THAT STATE~4ENT. I JUST THINK WE OUGHT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT FROM HERE ON OUT. IF WE HAVE AN APPLICATION, IT OUGHT TO BE FILLED OUT COMPLETELY. IF WE DON'T REQU17~E ALL THAT INFC;RHATION, THEN LET'S NOT HAVE IT. MR. HARRIS: I FEEL SOMEWHAT LIKE THE OTHER BOARD MEMEERS IN THAT I ~HtNK ARTIE PROBABLY FELT HE WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING AT THE TIME. WE ALL KNOW ARTIE AND HE TRIES TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR EVERYBODY, ALL THE WAY AROUND. ARTXE 'WAS APPOINTED ADMINISTRATOR TO CERTAIN PORTIONS OF TSIS ORDINANCE~ TAKING THE APPLICATIONS AND SO FORTH. I THINK IN THE FUTURE THE BOARD IS (;OING TO HAVE TO HAKE AN EFFORT TO REVIEW THESE APPLICATIONS AND TO HAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEHENTS SO THAT THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY SOME -9- THINGS IN THE ORDINANCE THAT DO NEED ATTBNTI(IN. AS FAR AS RECOMJ~ENDATZONS TO THE CITY COUNC~ZL, I THINK THE ONLY RECOWNENDATION I WOULD LIKE TO HAKE, AND~.I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER BOARD HEHBERS, IS THAT THERE WAS A TEST ADMINISTERED NOT ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE AND THAT THIS WAS A FIRST OFFENSE. THAT WE'RE AWARE OF AND I THINK EVERYBODY INVOLVED HAS LEARNED THEIR LESSON. I DON'T THINK THE BOARD FROM THIS POINT FORWARD WOULD BE AS UNDERSTANDING WITH A SECOND TIME OFFENSE, BUT LET'S HOPE THAT THAT WOULD NEVER COME ABOUT. MR. TRIPP: WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THESE STATEMENTS? ARE THESE STATEMENTS BEING MADE AS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CII"~ COUNCIL OR ARE THEY JUST STATEWENTS? ~R. PALUCH: THE MINUTES WILL BE TYPED UP. ~4R. TRIPP: AND GIVEN TO THE CITY COUNCIL: MR. PALUCH: AND THAT'S BASICALLY A RECOMMENDATION. HR. TRIPP= IS THAT WE'RE DOING? MR. KiLBRIDE: BASICALLY THE MEMBERS ARE CLARIFYING THEIR VOTE. THEY'VE STATED CERTAIN FINDINGS, BUT THEY'VE ALSO EXPLAINED. IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO DO THAT. MR. TRIPP: IF THIS IS GOING TO BE TYPED~I~P, I THINK IT WOULD BE UNFAIR OF ME NOT TO HAKE A STATEMENT SINCE THE OTHER 4 MEn'HERS HAVE. I BASICALLY FEEL THE SAME WAY, THAT ARTIE TOOK THIS ORAL EXAM AS FEELING HE WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG. I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT PORTION OF IT. THE PORTION OF IT THAT I CANNOT UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE EXAmINATiON WAS GIVEN AND THAT THERE WAS A SCORE OF i00~ ON IT. IT WAS AN ORAL EXAM AND THEN TO REPRESENT THIS CITY TO OTHER LICENSING BOARDS, THERE WAS A LETTER WRITTEN IN RECIPROCITY OF WHICH THE OTHER COUNTIES DEPEND UPON THIS BOARD AND THIS CITY TO BE CORRECT IN THAT INFORMATION AND IT WAS NOT CORRECT. IT WAS A DELIBERATE VIOLATION OF ANY TYPE OF EXAMINATION WHATSOEVER. IT WASN'T EVEN IN REFEREBCB TO THE REAL EXAMINATION. MR. KILBRIDE: DOES THE BOARD WISH TO MAKE ANY FORMAL RECOMMENDATION? HR. HARRIS: I THINK IT'S UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL AT THIS POINT TO TAKE THE ACTION NECESSARY, WHATEVER THEY DEEM TO BE NECESSARY. WE'VE PRESENTED OUR FACTS. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WANT TO PRESENT THEM TO THE CITY COUNCIL. MR. KILBRIDE:. I THINK THE MINUTES WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. THE CHAIRMAN NEEDS TO ADDRESS A STATEMENT TO THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL BASICALLY STATING WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE HEARING WAS, THAT A.HEARING WAS HELD, TESTIMONY WAS Gl-FEN, AND THESE ARE THE FINDINGS OF FACT, AND ATTACHED IS THE MINUTES AND ATTACHED IS THE RECORD WHICH INCLU~S THE APPLI- CATION FORM AND THE OTHER PAPERS. MR. PALUCH: DO I HAVE TO COME UP WITH THAT STATEMENT NOW OR CAN I TAKE SOME TIME TO WRITE IT UP AND GET THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS TO INITIAL IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? MR. KILBRIDE= THE CHAIPJ~%N CAN SURMIT IT UNDER HIS OWN SIGNATURE. MR. PALUCH; IF THE BOARD WOULD ALLOW ME, I'D LIKE TO TAKE SOME TIME TO WRITE IT UP AND I'LL SHOW IT TO YOU. WAYOR FLOOD: I CALL ALL THE MEETINGS. ARE YOU GOING TO ASK ME TO BRING THIS OUT IN AN OPEN MEETING. DO YOU WANT A SPECIAL MEETING OR WHAT? THAT HAS TO COME FRO~ YOU PEOPLE. MR. KILERIDE: MR. MAYOR, I THINK THAT DECISION IS YOUR DECISiOn. YOU'RE THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CITY. HAYOR FLOOD..: I DON'T THINK IT IS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN ASKED TO KEEP THIS THING AS LOW PROFILE AS I CAN BY THE BOARD. TO ME, WHEN THEY ASK ME TO KEEP A LOW PROFILE, MY QUESTION IS HOW LOW DO YOU WANT TO KEEP IT? DO YOU WAN T TO TAKE IT TO THE BROAD PUBLIC OR DO YOU WANT A SPECIAL MEETING AT WHICH YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ~Z~NY PEOPLE AND IT WOULD NOT BE OFER T.V. DO YOU WANT ME TO MAKE THAT DECISION? I THINK YOU'RE PUTTING A BURDEn; ON HY BACK THAT I DON'T DESERVE. IT'S WHERE THIS BOARD WANTS TO CARRY IT. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT BROUGHT THIS INVESTIGATION. I FEEL IT SHOULD BE THEIR RECOWNENDA- TION WHETHER TO HAVE A SPECIAL, JOINT OR JUST AN OPEN REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING. I DON'T FEEL I WANT TO TAKE THAT RESPONSIBILITY. I WILL IF YOU INSTRUCT ME TO, BUT I DON'T FEEL I SHOULD HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. - 10 - HOTION BY HR. LANGLOIS THAT NO FURTHER ACTION BE TAKEN ON THIS PART OF THE CASE. HR. TRIPP: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? HR. LANGLOIS~ THAT MEANS THAT IT STOPS RIGHT HERE, THIS PART OF IT. I WOULD A~SUHE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HEARING ON BILLY ADAMS. I DON'T KNOW. POSSIBLY AND PO~IELY NOT. AS FAR AS ANY FURTHER ACTION AGAINST ARTIE MAYER, HY HOTION ON THE FLOOR WOULD BE THAT THIS WOULD BE THE END OF IT RIGHT HERE. HR. PALUCH: WE NEED A SECOND TO THE MOTION. WOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. MR. PALUCH: I SUGGEST THAT WE ASK THE CITY COUNCIL TO HAVE A SPECIAL MEETING AND PRESENT THEM WITH HY STATEMENT OF FACT WHEN I GET IT WRITTEN. WHEN I COME UP WITH A STATEMENT OF FACT I'M GOING TO TRY TO, WHAT I HEARD EVERYBODY'S FEEL- INGS, RECOMMENDATIOHS, WHATEVER YOU HAVE, AND ~4Y INTERPRETATION. I DON'T WANT TO PUT ANYTHING IN THERE THAT SOMEBODY DISAGREES WITH. I THINK WE'RE ALL BASICALLY IN AGREEMENT. ~R. CAL~ES: I UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU SHOULD JUST GIVE A BRIEF STATEMENT THAT THE MEETING WAS HELD, TESTIMONY WAS TAKEN, AND E~CLOSED PLEASE FIND COPY OF THE MINUTES. HR. PALUCH= I'D BE DELIGHTED. MR. PALUCH: ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO HAKE A STATEMENT? STEP FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME. HR. BALLOUGH: MY NAME IS BILL BALLOUGH. I'H A LOCAL RESIDENTIA~ CONTRACTOR WORKING PRIMARILY IN SEBASTIAN. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ON MY OWN' BEHALF AND IF YOU WILL ACCEPT IT, ON BEHALF OF A LOT OF THE SUBS AND CONTRACTORS THAT I DEAL WITH EVERY DAY, I THINK THE BOARD IS WORKING AT THE CONVENIENCE OF THE BUILDING INDUSTRY IN SEBASTIAN, THESE PEOPLE THOUGHT. IT WOULD BE 1NPORTA~T IF YOU HEARD DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY THEIR OPINION. FIRST, THEY FEEL THERE ARE TWO ISSUES. (1) WHE~ER OR NOT HR. ADAMS IS ENTITLED TO A LICENSE IN ANY FORH.. .(2) IF THERE IS AN ISSUE ABOUT HOW IT WAS ADHINISTERED, WHETHER ANY~HlfNG SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT. THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT ON THE FIRST THING THAT FOR THE BOARD TO CONDONE THE ISSUANCE OF A LICENSE WOULD BE TO SANCTION IT AND THEY DON'T FEEL THAT'S PROPER.f NOT AFTER THEY'VE GONE OUT OF THEIR WAY AND DONE WHAT'S NECESSARY TO GET THEIR OWN LiCENSES. THEY DO FEEL, AS HR'~; ADAMS' ATTORNEY POINTED OUT, HE WAS UNDER THE IHPRESSION THAT HE WAS WITHIN THE LAW AND' HAS CARRIED ON A LIVEIJHOOD AND AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT'.PROBABLY HAS CON- TRACTS AND OTHER THINGS THAT REQUIRE HIM TO HAVE A LICENSE. TO PULL AWAY AT A F~gMENT'S NOTICE HAY BE AN UNFAIR BURDEN ON HIM. ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY FEEL HE SHOULD BE GIVEN A.HEGULAR TEST, HAYBE WITHIN 15 DAYS OR SO. GIVE HIH SOME SORT OF NOTICE THAT HE IS REQUIRED TO TAKE A REGULAR BLOCK TEST OR IF YOU WANT TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE ORDINANCE IS PRINTED AND YOU DECIDE TO .HAVE AN ORAL TEST, GIVE IT TO HIM AT THAT TIME, BUT' DON'T DRAG ON THE FACT, WHICH~IS PRETTY CLEAR, THAT HE GOT HIS LICENSE OTHER THAN THE NORMAL WAY OF OBTAINING ONE. CONCERNING WHETHER OR NOT THE BUILDING OFFICIAL DID ANYTHING I~4PROPER, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT NOT ONLY ARTIE, BUT A LOT OF CITY OFFICIALS ARE BURDENED WITH THE TASK OF HAKING DECISIONS ON THEIR OWN IN THE ABSENCE OF A LOT OF FOPJ4AL BOARDS LIKE THIS ONE. IF YOU'VE GOT A 'DRAINAGE PROBLEM, YOU CALL ARTIE. IF YOU'VE GOT ANY PROBLEM, YOU CALL ARTIE BECAUSE HE HAS TAKEN IT UPON HIMSELF TO RELIEVE THE CITY OF A ~ OF EXPENSE AND HE HAS HANDLED A LOT OF THINGS HIMSELF. I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT .~E GOT CAUGHT UP IN A SMALL TOWN ENVIRONMENT OF HAKING DECISIONS AND DOING THINGS IN AN IMPROHPTU HANNER, SO WHEN THE QUESTION CAME UP OF WHETHER THIS GUY SHOULD BE GRANTED A LICENSE, HE DECIDED YOU CAN'T DO iT THIS WAY, LET'S TRY THIS OTHER HETHOD. I DON'T THINK IT WAS A SELF-SERVING THING FROM ARTIE'S POINT OF VIEW. IT DIDN'T BENEFIT HIM IN ANY WAY. HIS INTEREST WAS rN HEL~ING SOWEONE IN THE CONSTRUCTION iNDUSTRY, WHETHER IT WAS RIGHT OR NOT. IT IS MY FEELiNG, AND SOME - 11 - OF THE OTHER SUBS, THAT A FOR3ULL TEST BE GIVE~, AND THAT THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS ANY IHPROPRIETY DONE BY MR. HAYER END RIGHT HERE. I THINK IT IS WITHIN YOUR PURVIEU TO DECIDE AHONGST YOURSELVES AND NOT RAISE ISSUE WITH THAT QUESTION ANY MORE. SIMPLY SAY ITS BEEN TALKED OVER, KICKED AROUND, AND YOU DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE IT. ON THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR HOT THE LICENSE IS VALID, DECIDE TO GRANT X AP~DUNT OF DAYS SO IT WOULDN'T CAUSE UNDUE BURDEN ON HIS LIVELIHOOD, BUT AFTER THAT POINT THE LICENSE IS NO ]29NGER IN EFFECT UNTIL SUCH TIME AS REGULAR TESTING CAN BE GIVEN. MR. PALUCH: THAT SECOND QUESTION HAS NOT CO~4E BEFORE THE ~OARD YET ALTHOUGH WE KNOW IT' HUST COME BEFORE THE BOARD~ I WOULD LIKE JUST TO SAY THAT THIS BOARD HAS ALWAYS BEEN READY TO SERVE IN WHATEVER CAPACITY WE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO SERVE. I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER SLIGHTED ANYBODY. IT IS THE CONSENSUS OF OPINION OUT IN THE FIELD THAT THIS BOARD IS A "YES" BOARD. HAYBE SOME PEOPLE OUT IN THE FIELD OUGHT TO VOLUNTEER TO SERVE ON IT. THIS BOARD IS ALWAYS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. MR. BALLOUGH: THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT I'VE LIVED HERE I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY WITNESSED A REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING..IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DISCUSS, YOU DIDN'T HAVE A MEETING. BUT IN THE LAST YEAR,-YOU MAY HAVE GONE 6 MONTHS BETWEEN MEETINGS WHICH IS NO REFLECTION ON THE BOARD IF YOU HAD NOTHING AT ISSUE, BUT WITHOUT THAT FORMAL ARM IT LEAVES A LOT OF DECISIONS TO BE MADE BY OTHER PROPLE. AFTER ATTENDING SEVERAL OF YOUR MEETINGS I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT IF THERE IS ANY QUESTION TO COME UP ABOUT LICENSES, THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO GO. 8 MONTHS AGO I WOULDN'T SAY THAT. IF I HAD A QUESTION OR A COMPLAINT I WOULD BE INCLINED TO GO TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, WHEREAS NOW I THINK YOU'VE BECOME MORE FORMAL, MORE REGULAR, AND I'D BE INCLINED TO COME HERE. MR. PALUCH= THIS BOARD STATISTICALLY, ;~ BELIEVE, HAS DONE MORE THAN ANY OTHER BOARD IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, INCLUDING THE DEPARTMENT OF PROFESSIONAL REGULATION. MOTION BY MR. LANGLOIS , SECONDED BY MR'. CALMES, THAT WE TURN THE FINDINGS OVER TO THE MAYOR AND THAT THE MAYOR TAKE ADMINISTRAT1J;E ACTIONS. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: MR. LANGLOIS MR. TRIPP MR. PALUCH MR. HARRIS MR. CAL~ES NAYS: NONE CARRIED MR. KILBRIDE: AS I STATED BEFORE, MR. ADAMS IS HERE ASA WITNESS. UNLESS HE CONSENTS YOU CANNOT TAKE ANY ACTION ON HIS LICENSE. I NEED TO ASKTHE BOARD IF IT DESIRES TO TAKE ANY ACTION CONCERNING ~4~. ADAMS' LICENSE. DOES IT WISH TO HAVE A HEARING IN ORDER TO POSSIBLY CONSIDER TAKING ANY ACTION? WHAT I AM REFERRING TO IN PARTICULAR IS UNDER SECTION 7-100 - REVOCATION OR. SUSPENSION OF CERTIFICATES. THE FIRST QUESTION TO THE BOARD IS DO FOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE FURTHER ACTION? MR. PAL~CH: I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO A~DRESS THE ISSUE. MR. KILBRIDE: THAT IS BASICALLY AGREED~ THEN LET MEASKMR. ADAWSA QUESTION. MR. ADAMS, DID YOUR ATTORNEY LEAVE? MR,'ADAMS: YES. MR. KILBRIDE: THE BOARD IS SAYING THAT THEY FEEL THAT THEY NEED TO TAKE ACTION IN REGARD TO - BECAUSE OF THE FINDINGS THEY FOUND TODAY - YOUR LICENSE. DO YOU WISH THE BOARD TO HAVE A SEPARATE HEARING SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE AN ATTORNEY AND BRINGAN"f WIT- NESSES? MR. ADAMS: YES. MOTION BY MR. CAL~ES, SECONDED BY MR. I24NGLOIS, THAT THE BOARD SET UP A DATE FOR A HEARING REGARDING ~4R.. ADAMS' LICENSE. CARRIED. HR. PALUCH: HOW ABOUT A WEEK FROM TODAY, SAME TIME? (THE~E FOLLOWED A BRIEF DISCUSSION REGARDING THE DATE SINCE VARIOUS HEMBERS WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE ON DIFFERENT DATES SUGGESTED. THE CLERK POINTED OUT THAT THE NEXT REGULAR~.Y SCHEDULED MEETING WAS TUESDAY, AUGUST 3 AT 3~00 P.M.) MR., KI..~. DE: MR. ADAMS, CAN YOU MAKE IT? (MR. ADAHS' REPLY WAS NOT DISTINGUISHABLE ON THE TAPE.) HR. KILBRIDE: IT HAS TO BE A PUBLIC MEETING. MR. ADAMS IS OBJECTING. HE'S ASKING FOR A SPECIAL MEETING. IS THAT IT? HAYOR FLOOD: I THINK THAT MAYBE WHAT HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT REGARDLESS OF WEEN WE CALL A HEETING IT IS ALWAYS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. IT'S LEFT OPEN TO THE SCRUTINY OF THE PUBLIC AT ANY TIME WE'RE MEETING JUST LIKE TODAY. I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BETTER FOR JUST A GENERAL MEETING AND THERE WON'T BE A LOT OF PARTICIPATION. REGARD- LESS OF WHEN WE GO YOU'VE GOT THE SAHE PROBLEM.. LET ME RE-PHRASE THAT, I DON~T MEAN A PROBLEM.. YOU'VE GOT THE SAH~ PARTICIPATION FROM THE PUBLIC WHETHER IT'S A SPECIAL MEETING OR A REGULAR MEETING. HR. HARRIS: THE PUBLIC REALLY WON'T HAVE ANY EFFECT ON IT ANYWAY. IT'S BETWEEN THE BOARD AND THE CITY COUNCIL. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? IT WAS AGREED THAT THE MEETING WOULD BE HELD ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 3, AT 3:00 P.M. HR. KILBRIDE: HR. ADAMS, YOU ARE BEING NOTIFIED TODAY AND WE'LL FOLLOW IT UP IH WRITING THAT THE BOARD IS CONSIDERING THE POSSIBILITY OF REVOKING OR SUSPENDING YOUR LICENSE BECAUSE IT WAS IMPROPERLY ISSUED, NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SEBASTIAN BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS. YOU CAN BRING ANYONE YOU WANT. YOU CAN BRING AN ATTORNEY, PRESENT ANY WITNESSES YOU WISH OR ANY MITIGATING OR ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THAT YOU WISH. MAYOR FLOODs THIS BOARD HAS THE' RIGHT TO SUBPOENA, HE DOES NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT, DOES HE? HR. KILBRIDE: YES, HE DOES. IF HE NEEDS SOMEBODY HERE AND THEY WILL NOT COME VOLUNTARILY, WE'LL DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO ASSIST HIM. MAYOR FLOOD: THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK. YOU CAN SUB- POENA FOR HIM. THIS BOARD CAN'T. MoTIoN BY HR. CALMES, SECONDED BY HR. LANGLOIS, TO ADJOURN AT 4:55 P.M. CARRIED.