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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07232008 ISBA WorkshopJOINT WORKSHOP INDIAN RIVER COUNTY CITY OF SEBASTIAN CITY OF VERO BEACH CITY OF FELLSMERE TOWN OF INDIAN RIVER SHORES TOWN OF ORCHID MINUTES WEDNESDAY, JULY 23, 2008 - 1:00 P.M. SEBASTIAN CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 1225 MAIN STREET, SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA RE: INTERLOCAL SERVICE BOUNDARY AGREEMENT (ISBAj 1. Mayor Coy called the Joint Workshop to order at 1:00 pm. 2. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. 3. Mayor Coy welcomed Indian River County and representatives from each of the five municipalities noting this was a great opportunity for all. She asked for each governmental agency chair to introduce its members and staff. Present: Indian River County Commissioner Sandra Bowden, Chairman Commissioner Wesley Davis, Vice Chairman Commissioner Joseph Flescher Commissioner Peter O'Bryan Commissioner Gary Wheeler County Administrator Joe Baird Assistant County Administrator Michael Zito Assistant County Attorney George Glenn Community Development Director Bob Keating *Athena Adams City of Fellsmere Mayor Sara Savage Vice Mayor Cheryl Hampton Council Member Susan Adams City Manager Jason Nunemaker City Attorney Warren Dill City Planner Rochelle Lawandales *Finance Director Larry Napier *City Clerk Debra Krages Town of Indian River Shores Mayor Thomas Cadden Vice Mayor Bill Kenyon Council Member Frances Atchison Town Manager Robert Bradshaw Town of Orchid Mayor Richard Dunlop Vice Mayor Suzanne Joyce Town Attorney Anthony Garganese Town Manager Deb Branwell City of Sebastian Mayor Andrea Coy Council Member AI Paternoster Council Member Dale Simchick City Manager AI Minner City Attorney Rich Stringer Growth Management Dir. Rebecca Grohall *City Clerk Sally Maio *Deputy City Clerk Jeanette Williams City of Vero Beach Mayor Tom White Vice Mayor Sabin Abell Council Member Debra Fromang Council Member Ken Daige Council Member Bill Fish City Manager Jim Gabbard City Attorney Charles Vitunac Planning Director Tim McGarry *City Clerk Tammy Vock '` Present but not participating Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Two 4. OPENING COMMENTS -City Manager, AI Minner Mr. Minner welcomed everyone to Sebastian and recapped the last workshop held on June 19th at the Richardson Center in Vero Beach, which was held to 1) introduce the elected officials to what the working group had talked about, 2) provide information and discussion on disputed issues, and 3) receive feedback to move forward with the process and ultimate approval of the interlocal agreement. He said discussion of the staff group's work had been covered at the last workshop but the two latter issues had not been addressed, so the intent of this workshop was to address the disputed issues for Sebastian and Fellsmere and counterpoints by the County, and following presentations and discussions of those issues, it would be time for the elected officials to discuss and give direction to staff. 5. PRESENTATION OF INTERLOCAL SERVICE BOUNDARY AGREEMENT (ISBA) POINTS OF CONTENTION A. ISBA EXHIBIT "D " -SEBASTIAN SPECIAL PLANNING AREA Presentation by Sebastian Mr. Stringer cited page 25 of the agenda packet (Exhibit D) which shows the Sebastian Extended Planning Area, whose heart and soul is the proposed Western Employment Center (WEC), noting 400 to 500 acres of Sebastian's commercial and industrial area in its comp plan has been taken for scrub jay protection. He noted the general area of the proposed WEC was generally in the area of the intersection of 82"d Avenue and 69th and would be up to approximately 1000 acres utilized for employment generating uses such as fight industry with housing aspect not to exceed the employment generating aspect on a 1:1 basis. He said the County had asked for more information on this proposal such as land development guidelines. He said it is not Sebastian's intent to put a ""new town"" in that area, that Sebastian is hemmed in by the urban service line, conservation lands and golf courses and does not have massive agricultural land that it can go out and annex. He noted the other two proposed areas are a Natural Extension of Sebastian Neighborhoods down to 77th and a Sebastian Transitional Area with estate development of one to two acres, noting Liberty Park will take a big chunk of the proposed neighborhoods area and will sit on Sebastian's boundary. He said Exhibit "D" is merely a guideline for Sebastian's future, is open to compromise and finally is a policy issue which can only be approved by elected officials. 2. County Viewpoint Mr. Keating said this is one of the many issues that staff discussed over the one year period and that the County has very few concerns about the WEC portion, however, does have concerns about establishing minimum acreage so it is not piecemeal development and can develop as proposed. He said as to the other two proposed areas the County does have concerns, in that County staff feels that the Natural Neighborhood is really urban sprawl, but if the City set up guidelines to develop in anon-sprawl manner, the County would feel more comfortable. He said as to the Transitional Area the County feels it is rural sprawl and more dense than the current one unit per five acres and not dense enough to have a good development pattern. He noted as the staff working group worked through the ISBA, 2 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Three the general standard was that any area outside the urban service area, if it were annexed, would have to have unanimous vote of all parties to change the land use and density. Mr. Keating reiterated the County does not have any real problems with the WEC part of the plan but would have problems with the other two components. B. ISBA EXHIBIT "F" - FELLSMERE DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES 1. Presentation by Fellsmere Mr. Nunemaker opened by stating that Fellsmere had addressed some concerns expressed by the County relative to reserve area and development quality. He noted that the focus of this ISBA agreement is to supplant the charter and the working group has tried to focus on the ideas and concepts that would have been addressed by that document. He gave a power point presentation (see attached), first exhibiting the first expansion map that was presented in August 2007 and resulting conflicts with the City of Sebastian and the City of Vero Beach. He exhibited maps over the period which show reduced reserve areas to the final 7/15/08 map which shows that Fellsmere has greatly reduced its reserve area down to 11,986 acres. He cited exhibit "F" and discussed the ""new town"s" concept which would apply to unincorporated areas annexed, said Fellsmere is definitely interested in street grids and expanding road access, and wants employment centers. He then discussed proposed provisions of Fellsmere Joint Ventures (FJV) and Ro-Ed General Development Guidelines citing issues to be resolved, i.e. height, density, annexation, open-space, architectural and site design guideline, conservation and affordable housing. He said height as an issue for Fellsmere is different because they are not a beach community but there are height and density limits they would be willing to work with. Mr. Nunemaker said he was confident these issues can be worked out citing where the working group started and where it is today. 2. County Viewpoint Mr. Keating said Indian River County staff was happy to see Fellsmere pull back and significantly reduce its reserve area, and that with respect to Exhibit "F" the standards only apply to what Fellsmere has already annexed which is the 21,000 acres. He said the ISBA group initially thought that acreage would be covered by the ISBA which would require unanimous vote to change density, but Fellsmere was unwilling to include that acreage so Exhibit "F" standards were developed by default. He said County staff does not think those standards protect agriculture and do not set large amounts of open space, nor do they set standards to protect areas east of I-95, that the County is looking for impacts that are internalized and not externalized, and that issues of density and height are not adequately incorporated into the standards. He said the County's principal items are open space, greenbelt, and agricultural preservation. 6. PUBLIC INPUT Mayor Coy opened public input and Mr. Stringer asked if any of the public agencies would like to put a time limit on public input. Hearing no response, Mayor Coy suggested the Sebastian time limit of five minutes and if she heard nothing else she would impose that limit. There was no objection. Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Four John Williams, 1535 Smuggler's Cove, Vero Beach, said he had lived in Florida for 51 years and had seen cities and counties fail to follow the will of the majority and that representative government leaves a tawdry trail, because of dominance of special interests over the will of the majority. He said Vero Beach set a standard by the will of the majority as to height restrictions and was followed by other cities in Indian River County, and now he sees that the will of the majority no longer counts. He asked if elected officials are saying the peoples' judgment in the 1970s was wrong, noting this group has met for one year only because three County commissioners denied the right of the people to vote their own destiny and allowed Fellsmere to annex over 20,000 acres. He said this agreement is not the way to correct this, that we are all here because 200 voters in Fellsmere determined their leadership, noting that Mr. Nunemaker said again "this is in lieu of the Charter", and stated the public should have the right to vote charter up or down and determine its own future. He said if it goes through, the ISBA agreement should contain provisions for comp plan changes to be voted on by the people. Susan Boyd, 8025 24th Street, said she does see a big difference in this meeting from the last, and that there has been more give and take since the last meeting, and on behalf of citizens, expressed her appreciation. She noted after looking at the new map a neighbor of her said it looks like we are going to go from charter light to charter heavy, suggesting that if all the areas proposed are annexed into cities which have charters the people in a city could get together and propose charter amendments for issues such as height and density and if this occurs, what have we accomplished. She asked what would happen to people like her who are in areas not proposed for annexation and asked why they cannot just allow those people in unincorporated areas to vote on whether or not they want charter government. She said she understands this exercise but isn't sure this is the direction we want to take. Damian Gilliams, 1623 US 1, Sebastian, thanked everyone for taking time out of their schedules to be here, asked for a show of hands as to how many property owners were present whose land was being considered for annexation, and he counted three or four. He said it would be wise to send a certified letter to property owners in the annexation areas to get their input as to how their land will be developed, said he did not want Vero Beach to impose their wants and needs throughout Indian River County, noting there is a different lifestyle in the north county municipalities and that needs to be taken into consideration. He thanked staff and the group for putting this meeting together. 7. ELECTED OFFICIAL DISCUSSION ON CONSENSUS FOR DIRECTION TO ISBA WORKING GROUP A. Reserve Area Boundaries B. Fellsmere Development Guidelines C. Sebastian Special Planning Area Mayor Coy called on Vero Beach at this time. Council Member Fromang said these will be voluntary annexations and not forced upon any property owner, and is just potential area for consideration of annexation over the next twenty years. 4 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Five Mayor White thanked Mayor Coy for hosting this workshop, and Mr. Nunemaker for reducing Fellsmere's reserve area which will bring us closer together. He said Vero Beach agrees with some of the things Mr. Keating said but does not have anything close to the urban service line, but thought it important to be involved because of the talk of Charter government. He commended the staff task force for their work on the agreement and hoped all can come to an agreement. Council Member Fish asked about Sebastian's proposed southern boundary and Mr. Stringer said it was at 69th noting 77th would be proposed as the southern boundary of the traditional neighborhoods section. Council Member Simchick said each city has its different needs, noted the County had objections to Fellsmere and Sebastian reserve areas but if you look at the agreement discussing the "new town" philosophy it shows very high buildings of 65 feet, and cited Exhibit "E" provisions, stating that we have the County being able to develop and perhaps the County needs to come to the table as well if we are all in this together. Mr. Stringer said while Sebastian and Fellsmere are willing to pull back, they are looking to the County to pull back a little on its "new town" concept, because when there are no limits on how many of these "new towns" can go out there, and there are four times as many units, no matter how pretty you make it, it is still sprawl. Mr. Stringer gave a power point presentation, exhibiting the newly revised proposed annexation map, citing Sebastian's willingness to pull back from 69th Street to 77th Street from the canal eastward. He said a lot of the areas that show in the reserved areas, the cities didn't ever want, noting Sebastian didn't ask for Roseland nor did Fellsmere ask for Vero Lakes Estates but it was requested that they not leave these areas out. He said Sebastian would kill what is shown as cross hatched on the map as well as the traditional neighborhood and wrap what is left into the proposed "western employment district". Commissioner Davis clarified the area in question was Range Line Road. He said he did have some concerns for the individual land owners in the southern cross-hatched area of the map between 69th and 77th, and thought that area was being considered as part of Sebastian's industrial area and would like to see that withdrawn. He asked if Sebastian was asking for a total withdrawal of the County's "new town" policy. Mr. Stringer said in his discussions with Council Member Simchick she expressed concern that there is no limit on how many "new towns" there can be and that the height can be up to 80 feet. Mr. Davis asked Mr. Keating where he saw the ability fora "new town" to be an effective tool in the County's regulations. Mr. Keating said the County comp plan has had "new town" criteria for the past twenty years, and the proposed language in the ISBA is different than the criteria in the current County comp plan. He said "new town" criteria was proposed for the ISBA knowing that if approved the county will go back and look at "new town" criteria and this will be an absolute maximum and could be reduced but not expanded. He said the current criteria 5 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Six is one unit per acre, and this says two units per acre, and as to where a "new town" could go it would be south of 77th and east of I-95 or west of I-95 north of SR 60. Commissioner Davis asked if "new towns" would be a minimum of 1200 acres and Mr. Keating said in the current comp plan yes, but they are proposed at 2000 acres, and also in response said if Sebastian were to withdraw its hatched area from 69th to 77th the County could make its changes concurrently. Mr. Keating, in response to Mayor Coy, said the County's current regulations provide for six miles of separation between "new towns" but no separation from cities; and Mayor Coy said that is an issue for her. Commissioner Wheeler thanked Sebastian for bringing this up because this proposal doubles what the County currently has in its comp plan, said that he has been opposed to the "new town" concept because they have to first develop residential to entice services which doesn't always happen, citing Pointe West which is just now starting to develop commercial. He said at one time "new town" was to be removed and then was put back in, and staff has been given direction to look at transfer of densities. He said commissions, policies and attitudes change and he said he thought we need to have something more concrete than three votes of councils. Commissioner O'Bryan concurred with Council Member Simchick on the 65 foot height, citing section 12 of the ISBA agreement which refers to unanimous agreement prior to any changes, and noting any annexations of land currently in the unincorporated county and inside the urban service area are exempt from provisions of Section 12. He said he had asked to include that land as part of the Section 12 agreement for requests to go above the current height to require a vote. He said as far as Sebastian, they say they have lost industrial area due to scrub jays, and wondered did citizens complain or were they happy about this because it helped make Sebastian be what it wants to be. He asked why Sebastian and Fellsmere should be allowed to exempt themselves from Section 12 if they are going to move the urban service boundary by annexation whereas if the County wanted to move the urban service boundary it would have to go through Section 12. Council Member Simchick said she feels the 65 feet is too high, 35 feet is the standard throughout the county, and what if a "new town" is right at the City's border with 65 feet, citing circle page 20. Commission Chair Bowden said the way it is currently written in the comp plan the County can't do it now, said it would be helpful to map out the 83,000 acres of conservation land and water that cannot be developed. She cautioned that we are on a case by case basis, opportunities may come up that you might want to take advantage of, such as the Vero Beach airport tower which exceeds the height limit, so as not to lock yourselves in. She again requested to have the real locations in the County that could not be developed mapped. 6 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Seven Council Member Simchick said Sebastian citizens do enjoy their conservation areas but it is a double edged sword and we need to acquire more land and provide commercial for the City's economic development. Mayor Coy agreed that though the City enjoys the scrub jay areas and support conservation we are looking for expansion room to our south that makes good sense. She said we are bound up against the urban service line and would like some relief so we have logical expansion area in the future for smart economic development. She cited Sebastian's recent past noting there has been no large annexation for at least four years, and are now looking for a business district but they will never be a metropolis. She thanked Fellsmere for pulling back its reserve area, and said Sebastian needs a little wiggle room to develop sensible growth. Commissioner Davis asked Sebastian's intent for height and Mayor Coy said 35 feet is the height throughout the City except for 25 feet on the riverFront. The City Manager said the City has the same flexibility as the County would. He said we are currently 35 feet, but if the ISBA was approved, the land development regulations would still exist, but we would have flexibility in the non-residential areas. Commissioner Wheeler said we are a county as a whole and it may be appropriate to have an industrial park centrally located in the County that would service all the municipalities and the County and have an agreement where we could all share in the cost and tax base depending on how we contribute to it. Mr. Stringer said this is what Sebastian looked at in the "western employment center", and noted it was planned to be in the central area to benefit the whole County. Mayor Coy said her concern would be that down the road when the councils and commissions change, that the cooperation felt today might not be the same. She said Sebastian has very little commercial development and needs the opportunity for a tax base. Commissioner Wheeler said he sees strength in all of us participating together with an interlocal agreement for twenty years, and it could be set up where we all benefit. Council Member Richard Dunlop, Orchid, said this has been the most he had seen all of the agencies work together in the ten years he had been here and complimented the working group. He passed out maps showing conservation lands and presented it on an overhead, stating it did not necessarily include private lands purchased. He said over 26% of the County is in conservation and this does not include lands such as golf courses. He described all of the conservation and publicly owned lands in the Sebastian reserve area, noting that it needs to be taken into account that these properties cannot be developed, which also holds true in the Fellsmere and Indian River Shore reserve areas and other properties. He complimented Sebastian and Fellsmere for coming back to the table with changes, that everyone wants this to work and if we can all take this back to our councils and commission, we have a document that will work for our future, with the biggest stumbling block being the "new town" concept, and work together for same densities and heights, and would agree with one industrial area that will work for the whole County because the biggest cry here is no jobs. 7 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Eight Vice Mayor Joyce asked if all the agencies agreed on the height and density and put it in the ISBA why would people even want charter. Mayor Cadden said we have made a lot of progress, appreciated what Sebastian has done and for Fellsmere coming to table, that we have a good document and he would like to see it continue. He recommended we go back to staff for more work, and complimented everyone on a job well done. Council Member Kenyon, said though Indian River Shores was not a major player, he was impressed with how far Sebastian and Fellsmere had gone, was impressed with what Commissioner Wheeler suggested about an industrial park, and that we all have to work together, if we can all just give a little bit. Commissioner Davis asked what Sebastian Council would like to changed in the "new town" concept. Mr. Minner responded the number of "new towns" allowed in the County, proximity to city limits and height and density. Council Member Simchick said perhaps more realistically 50 feet up to 65 feet rather than 65 feet to 80 feet. Mr. Minner said we will bring this back to the working group and also pull back some of Sebastian's reserve areas. Commissioner Flescher thanked Sebastian for putting this together, another step toward cohesiveness and communication for all of Indian River County. He cited the last meeting at the Richardson Center one of the major comments made was that only three individuals spoke at the meetings and said citizens are counting on us to do the right thing. He said he had heard from municipal council members, citing Sebastian, saying that most do not want to see a charter government but would like to have an interlocal agreement. He said the first reserve map was explosive, thanked everyone for their understanding in pulling back, noted the increase in white area on the map and complimented municipal staffs. He said he hoped we can move this forward and asked what the Commission can do to make this happen. Commissioner Wheeler noted the vast increases in height and density proposed, cited the fact that we have disseminated very little information to the public and expressed concern for the proposal to increase height by 60%. Mayor Savage asked for clarification on the location of the proposed Sebastian employment center and Mr. Minner responded south of CR 510. She then asked for plans for the area west of 510, and Mr. Stringer said mixed use with commercial in keeping with what is currently planned for the City area within the city limits on the north of 512. Mayor Savage complimented Sebastian and the Clerk for putting the workshop together and introduced her City Clerk, Deborah Krages. She said she believed this can be worked out, and that Sebastian would have to work out a roadway for the employment center, that I-95 needs to be the main corridor for employment because there are lands all along there and because 510 might create a bigger mess than what it already is. She said she does not care for the "new town" concept because there is no connectivity, and had no problem with 85 foot height, though she does not particularly like it, but could see it in the I-95 corridor. Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Nine Mr. Stringer said Sebastian tried to coordinate their thoughts with what Fellsmere was doing, discussed the need for an interchange or flyover. He said the "western employment center" location was planned with a new interchange in mind, reminding everyone this is a 20 year plan and a lot can't happen unless there is infrastructure in place. Mr. Minner said the 82"d/Laconic intersection is in the long range MPO plan to connect large areas internally. Mayor Savage noted she had grown up in Indian River County and agreed with the need for connectivity and would not have a problem with the employment center if infrastructure was in place. Council Member Adams echoed Mayor Savage's comments and thanked everyone for the open dialogue opportunity. She said we now have a very workable map, that as far as design standards, Fellsmere has to be able to retain certain latitude for height and density and be able to have higher buildings so as not to sprawl outward, such as in the area of I-95 and other possible locations. She said when the working group gets back together there has to be a willingness for give and take, that Fellsmere has given a lot up and it would be nice if others would come to the table with some of those types of good will efforts. Mayor Coy said we might be at the point where we come to an agreement as to what we want our staffs to do. In reading the agenda, she asked if anyone had any other issues to address. Commissioner Flescher concurred with the idea of an employment center and said that tool should be in the toolbox, hoped in "new towns" that commercial be in place before residential. D. Other issues Council Member Simchick said she hoped the circle page 20 reference to transfer credits regarding "conservation, agricultural preservation" doesn't include to the St. Johns River Water Management District conservation area; and objected to only the County chairing the Urban Services Advisory Committee (USAC), and recommended the Chair should be rotated among all the agencies. Commissioner O'Bryan said typically when conservation lands are publicly purchased by bond or grant it is stipulated in the documents that they cannot be transferred or sold, and he provided an example of what he believed the transfer development rights applied to, whereby someone like the Corrigan property owners could sell TDR credits to another developer to utilize and it does not increase overall density but just moves it. He said he had no problem with tightening up the language to say "any lands purchased by the County, City or joint projects, development rights must be extinguished". He said the recently purchased conservation properties have "no transfer" provisions forever. Commissioner Davis said the SJRWMD parcel zoning is zero so there are no density issues there. He further explained how transfer of development rights works. 9 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Ten Commissioner Wheeler said it is good to get together and talk but we need to be up front, that Fellsmere cutting reserve area is a positive but that positive is offset by the fact that they took about 22,000 acres off the table before we started negotiations. Council Member Adams said that the acreage he referenced was never on the table and that is the way Fellsmere came to the table. She said she keeps hearing that comment and said if we want to talk about a truthful conversation let us have one. Discussion took place on the recent action of SJRWMD with its conservation lands transfers. Commissioner O'Bryan said everyone is very pleased with Fellsmere pulling back its reserve area, but he still had a concern about the open space requirements and 50% in its annexation agreements, because there is no wording that the 50% should be large tracts or agricultural use and feared it could be broken up. He also expressed concern for wording that allows private parking spaces, private buildings and private structures and that did not sound like open space to him. He further stated if the County is going to be part of the ISBA, and if the County has to go through provisions of section 12 if they cross the urban service line, all municipalities should bound by them as well if they annex lands within the urban service line. Vice Mayor Joyce read from Section 15 terms of the agreement relative to termination and asked if it can be all knocked out by a resolution. Mr. Stringer said it is not an automatic termination and explained the termination steps within the agreement. Mr. Dill said he helped write the document, and noted there a lot of provisions which if you read the words they are substantially different, citing examples. He said Fellsmere has a 35 foot height generally with the exception of a small box of 65 feet, with 15 feet for embellishments, which the County had in its provisions. He said the citizens would have to vote in a Charter and said there is a strong voting mechanism in the ISBA by the five cities and the County which has not been mentioned. Commissioner O'Bryan, said section 8 deals with height and density for annexed properties outside the urban service area boundary; 8A says no height and density limits can be increased without compliance with section 12, however 8B exempts Fellsmere from the process and 8C exempts Sebastian from the process. Mr. Dill said the exemption is no more than is already in existence; and why shouldn't they be exempt, because if they were in the County they would be exempt. Commissioner O'Bryan said not in this agreement, because it says the County has to comply with Section 12 if it moves the urban service line. Mr. Stringer responded the County can already do "new town" development without moving the urban service line, so why shouldn't Fellsmere be able to do the same upon annexation. He said the way it was originally written was that the County could increase height and density without moving the urban service line but if the cities annexed land they could not, so what it basically says now is that Fellsmere can do what the County can do without it being annexed. Commissioner O'Bryan said there was a vote to remove "new towns" when he was first elected and it was sent to Tallahassee but somehow we left it in. He said he was willing to 10 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Eleven address it and pull that out and then Sebastian and Fellsmere should be willing to come in under Section 12. Mr. Nunemaker said one of the compromises we can make is to the extent that charter pre- empts any home rule authority that would be the kick in procedure. Mr. Stringer addressed Commissioner O'Bryan, had him look at the map, and said all cities except Sebastian have areas they can grow into without permission under Section 12, and to give us certainty we are coming to you now to ask for pre-approval, otherwise every single time we want to do something we are the only City which will have to go to everyone for unanimous approval. Mayor Coy asked for any other comments in parting. Commissioner Flescher asked to revisit section 15, section B, paragraph 1 under Terms, and recommended the working group openly discuss this section when they meet again. Mr. Stringer said if the County Commission takes the affirmative step to do terminate, it is hard to know where that line is. Commissioner Flescher said there can be a special interest out there to trigger this. Mr. Stringer said instead of allowing one party to cancel it, you can set another number, if you get to the point where there is a petition, you can provide for maybe three of the five parties or even just more than one. Commissioner Flescher said he would not want to see a special interest tear apart all the hard work that has been accomplished. Council Member Simchick said the City Manager mentioned to her if we cannot get past boundaries we are not going to get to water, and asked what we doing about services and who is going to provide them. Mr. Stringer said there were two approaches 1) master plan out now; or 2) set up the structure so when something comes in it will go to the USAC to analyze services. He said there are two reviews; when annexed and then when the request for comp plan assignment comes in and at that time, we better know what is in the ground. Mr. Glenn said the purpose of Florida Statute's 171 is for annexation to follow services and we are doing the opposite with this. Mr. Nunemaker said we are in conformance with the statute's intent. He said we can provide a data sheet on how services will be provided. Council Member Simchick asked if those will be produced at the next meeting. Mayor Coy listed issues she had jotted down that she believed we want to send had taken to - "new towns", height and density within "new towns", open space in Fellsmere agreements and green belt and agricultural issues, section 15, closer look at appointment of charter commissions and 15B1. 11 Joint ISBA Workshop July 23, 2008 Page Twelve Mr. Stringer said the group was looking for general consensus so they know where to go from here and asked if everyone was 1) comfortable with the reserve areas, 2) Fellsmere development guidelines seems to be open and Bob (Keating) and Jason (Nunemaker) can work on that, and 3) Sebastian's planning area with the offer to compromise to knock out the traditional neighborhoods and just roll up into the "western employment center" and give up the eastern portion of it. He said without a major objection we'll try to polish that up. He asked if there is a consensus that "new town" is more than what we want out in the rural areas, and limit how many, limit the height and proximity to cities. The group seemed to generally concur with his comments by head nods. Mayor White said Mr. Vitunac will contact everyone to schedule a work group meeting in August and suggested we have another joint workshop of this group, asking Mayor Coy if she would like to host the meeting in Sebastian again. Mayor Coy agreed Sebastian will host the meeting and everyone concurred with approximately sixty days from now. 8. Being no further business, Mayor Coy adjourned the workshop at 3:26 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Sally Maio, MMC City obastian l `~~--'- 12